ok, so we don’t usually post pictures of our failures, but in the interest -maybe only mine- of a better product, here we go.
background on the board/rider. this is a 5’8" x 20 1/2 x 2 1/8 unsealed stringerless eps(i believe to be 2.5# density) fish(pictures soon as i load them) with 6/6/4 deck and 6/4 bottom. the rider - me - 5’10" 170lbs average build.
what happened: on a shoulder high wave, i hit the lip, free fell with the lip, and landed under it in water about 30" deep over sand. my front foot had slipped back to just behind middle, and the board creased, meaning the glass on the rails cracked all the way across the deck to the other side, and created a few wrinkles on the deck(will post later tonight, as i am sure it will help the diagnosis.)
my thoughts, in fact from the moment i shaped it, was that it was a bit too thin to not have a stringer, but was more afraid of it breaking in the tail/fin box area as the thickness there is about 1 1/4.
anyway, too bad. it was a great board while it lasted…
edit: photos of damage
the board looks so square but like you signature says"if it works for you, then obviously, it works"
well, i don’t know about it being square, but the measurements are 5’8" x 16n x 20 1/2 x 16t with tips 11" apart. single concave from center out tail.
worked amazing. here’s a different pic of the bottom.
any feedback from you guys on breakage?
i heard that theoretically a stringerless board can be fixed with a buckle…ya gonna try???
I wouldn’t call it a epoxy/eps failure, more like a stress failure.
I’d sand down the bottom and put another layer of glass on and rewrap the rails, might get a few more years out of it…
I’m assuming it wasn’t freezing cold where you were surfing, so that’s out. I’m also assuming you let it cure for the appropriate amount of time as well, so that’s out too.
I don’t think the thickness of the foam has much to do with this issue, if anything.
I see this as a “too stiff…not enough flex” issue. What type of resin did you use? Some formulations cure stiffer and some more flexy. Is there such a thing as too much glass on a too short board making it too stiff? Because your cloth bill is pretty heavy…
I had an EPS 3x6 deck, 2x6 bottom longboard with a fiberglass stinger do the exact same thing on my roof rack when I put it up there deck down but nose forward… the way they told you NOT to on the rack instructions. Duh… I was able to gouge out the glass along the rails and where it delamed on the deck, then filled the channel in the foam with some resin and cabosil. Once cured and sanded, I then put several successively larger patches of glass over the fracture. Rides like it never happened.
hey nj,
no it definately isn’t freezing cold out here in brazil. and yes, this board cured for 1 week before i glossed it, and its about 2 months old.
anyway, she had plenty of flex, i think the problem was actually too much. the foam seems ok, but the deck just wrinkled up, and the rails are cracked. it was a definate hard landing, in shallow water, so admittedly it is my fault(i felt her flex, and then let go.) the resin came from comfibras here in brazil. ihave yet to find anyone selling RR, even though Greg L says they are here. it has only one formula, and one catalyst, one cure time, and no additives, making it rather difficult - in relation - to work with.
i was thinking it was the thickness as with a poly board anything under 2 1/4 seems to be rather risky in punchy waves. maybe eps isn’t such an issue?
i would try to fix her, but all the tint work has me a bit concerned on the out come. anyway, will see.
thanks for the input.
edit: clarifying a few things
Hey Rob,
I’m really sorry about that, but I have a felling that it would be happen some day. I think even Archimedes could explain the reason of this problem. Anyway, it’s part of the apprentiship proccess. I guess that, even repaired, the problem will persist and in the next stressing situation the board will break again. Stringerless bards are always a risk.
On second look, you did do a nice job with the tint and pin line. If you like the board and just want to breathe life into it one more time, try fixing it. But it’s true that it’s really the beginning of the end for that board.
Hey…look at it as an excuse to build yourself a new one!
hey jeff,
yes, i had a feeling that it would too, as after shaping it, i thought it might be a bit too thin to not have a stringer. oh well. i agree to that even if i fix the glass, it will have issues in anything over waist/shoulder high.
and yes, i admit, i built it as an experiment into epoxy/eps. so, while i am bummed that it broke, it is in fact part of learning, and moving toward a better product in the end. damn, though jeff she sure was fun while it lasted, ha.
hey when are we going surfing again anyway? i have another board to experiment with, and to show you.
hey nj,
yeah, i think this is one to chalk up to the learning curve. maybe i’ll just hang her on the wall as a reminder…lol.
luckily, i have another 5’8"(but this one is 2 3/4" thick with 3x6 deck and 4/6 bottom) to try out. got to love experimenting…
any feedback from you guys on breakage?
A surfboard = sandwich composite. Yours flexed beyond the compression side skin’s ability to handle. The compression side rigid skin of a board (or any compsand structure) will crease, buckle if it is flexed too far.
Pressure dents along the rail(?) may have provided a starting point for the actual failure.
Try laminating a layer of fiberglass to each side of a panel of foam. When fully cured slowly bend in half until something happens.
A stringer may have helped to some extent but any board will fail at some point.
hey john,
thanks for the feedback. interesting thought about the pressure dings, too. i didn’t notice any this time, but if - hopefully not for a while - i will make a not of this in the future.
been meaning to pm you about some hoop fin building info too.
thanks
Hey Rob,
As a famous Vinicius de Morais, a Brazilian poet/musician from the bossa-nova movement once told about love: “that it be eternal while it lasts”.
Surfing for while is in stand by mode. I don’t dare to talk about the fishing season in Swaylocks because they will never understand all the traditional/political implications of this phenomena here. For us, It just remains to wait for wind and swell changes, but the forecasts for this week are not promissing.
You’re talking about a 5’8" board, with 16 oz of glass on the deck alone, plus another 10 on the bottom. That’s a pretty thick structural skin on a pretty short board. Plus, it was over an unsealed blank, which means that you should have had a good bit of resin penetrate the foam. The board should have been able to take that degree fo flex WITHOUT failing, which it did, no doubt. Spread the same amount of stress over a larger area and it might not have happened. Or, and I’m just throwing this out there for argument’s sake, use a thinner skin to allow MORE flex.
Somebody here, forgive me for forgetting who it is, is always saying, “the strength is in the rails,” and that’s to a great degree, true. So, as long as you wrapped the rails, and didn’t do that zipper cut thing, you should have had a board that can take a shoulder high drop with a 170 lb rider.
I believe the resin you used has everything to do with what happened. Something with the formula, or the curing, or too much resin-to-cloth ratio, or the resin-to-hardener ratio was off… Did you try to speed up the cure somehow?
hey nj,
definately no zippering of rails, as for no other reason as i wanted the laps to look right with the cut laps…lol. i also think that the majority of the strength is in the rails, as well as a domed deck.
but in all honesty, it does sound like a lot of glass. anyway, live and learn. turns out the same day a bit further up the beach, my friend broke his 3 month old poly in two pieces doing a floater. maybe mother ocean was just taking her toll that day. who knows.
you could also be right about the resin. the person i buy my materials from also makes boards(sandwhich as well as carbon/kevlar lams,) and his standard boards, with 3/16 stringers, kevlar+4oz bottoms, and 4/4 oz decks buckle. and, i hesitate to say that it is the craftmanship as he learned in spain and oz, and has been in the business since the 80s.
as i was saying, there is only one formula, and one catalyst, mixed 2/1 ratio, so there is no fast cure(usually have to wait overnight to flip/sand.) the only thing i added to the resin, was the tint - after i had catalyzed it to make sure it didn’t interfere with the mixing. maybe?
i think it boils down to just plain old bad luck, or karma, or whatever. having been able to bounce on this board - upside down or right side up on 2x4s per the nev adverts or hit it full on with my fist - and have it spring back, it was just meant to go to the perfect waves in the sky…
thank you mother ocean i have now paid, how 'bout some waves?