#002 Board Build Thread

General Discussion
1

After reading 100 + pages about the mini simms, and several threads on the home depot foam build, I decided that it’s time for me to do both. Last time I bought a blank and got the board glassed somewhere. This time i’m going to do everything from building the blank to glassing. Please feel free to chime in and give pointers, as I’m open to feedback.

First: build the blank.

I bought some EPS at my local Home depot

 

Unfortunately, the big sheets would not fit in my car and the guy at the store said that they can’t cut it in store so I had to buy a 4 foot piece  that is a bit short for my design and I had to add 2 pieces together to get the length I need.

I figured that I had to add support to where the two pieces would fit, so I did what they do in furniture and put pieces of wood in between to hold.

Cut the holes, used elmer’s white glue and then put it together. I used white glue for all the foam, and then some Gorilla glu to put the stringer down to the foam.

The hardest part of this buid was figuring out super creative ways of clamping the foam together. Wood, bungee chords, clamps, a heavy canvas bag filled with weights, Shelves from an ikea book shelf. Anything i can do to keep things flat and constant pressure.

 

 

Steps:

  1. Peeled off one layer
  2. use white elmers glue and bond the two pieces together (non covered sides)
  3. let it dry 2 days
  4. cut out the braces and cute holes for the 2 pieces together
  5. use glue in cavities and on the exposed pieces, clamp again and let dry 2 days
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So I took some time during the week to sharpen up the rails and take some volume out from the board. I probably took about 1/8 inch from it’s overal thickness and then foiled out the front and back a bit. Overall, it feels better, not quite so much foam, and i’m happy with how it looks so far.

 

Oh and I changed the bottom, I made it flat to a deep double with v out the back. I’ll add pictures later (Tip: I used a leveler to measure the concves and how even it was. Very helpful when finishing the shape.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

 

Next I used some spackle (watered down) and filled it the gaps. There were some big gaps in the tail on the bottom where the two pieces of foam met, gaps along the stringer and where the foam is brought together. Used some spackle and filled in as much as possible. I noticed that the spackle was a different color from the foam and so I wanted to cover it up as much as possible so I decided to paint the board. I got some behr water based paint from home depot ($5) arctic white and some orande color #330 I think.

 

What do you think?

Oh I also stopped by Foamez, bought some items (~$230):

leash plug

vent plug

epoxy glassing stuff

s cloth

fcs fin plugs

squeegee

 

Most likely this weekend, i’ll give the glassing a shot. I need to read up and get a schedule ready.

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The Design:

Learning from my first board, I wanted make sure I had a good template so I used the aki shaper and made this.

I name it after my Dog. She is lazy and sleeps all day so i figured that this would be a good summer board and compliment my quiver. In reality I made several board designs, but this one seemed to be the easiest to make given that my piece of foam is a big block.

I then printed out the board template and stringers. I then glued them to some wood panelling I bought at home depot with spray adhesive (I rolled it on, it helps keeps things flat)

Used a jig saw and cut around the template about 1/4" leaving some room just in case. I then took a metal file and shaved the wood down, right to the outside of the line.

Taking the extra time to cut and perfect these makes a big difference.

I then cut the foam from the previous post in half, lengthwise, put the stringer in it and used gorilla glue to make the bond. I noticed that gorilla glue expands, and since I had it clamped firmly, the stringer came out crooked. Oh well, went ahead witht he process after I let it dry for a day. Then I placed the template and created the board outline.

 

At this point, i was some what dissapointed. The stringer was crooked (Probably because of the Gorilla glue) and you can see that there is a gap in the foam, where I had to put the extra piece on to extend it. (the second line from the top is the gap i’m talking about)

 

Next step is to cut out the template (Drew the stencil and cut the outline rom the bottom of the board up and tried to keep the cut as straight as possible, I did it from the top on my last board and it came out crooked)

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Obviously,

I have some time on my hands now so i’ve been working on the board here and there and just posting now. After the board was cut, I did the big job of shaving foam down from a block of foam to something that looks like a surboard. After several hours of good old fashion hand surfoam madness. I finally had the rough shape. I pretty much just tried to keep it flat/straight and just mowed the foam down so that it reflected the stringer I put in (So much easier with it as a guide). I then started to trim the stringer and made the rails to get it where it is now.

Some things I noticed about the foam: It’s not as dense as the us blank foam and feels more flexy. Also, the gradients are bigger, so it is easier to have chunks or pieces come out of it with your tools. it’s better to leave some room for error and fine tune with sandpaper.

 

This thing has a lot of foam and I want to get rid of more. Fow now, I wanted to take a step back, look at the pictures I took and then try and smooth things out. i’m sure there are crooked and uneveness. I did a single concave on the bottom with a double vee out the back, rapered the rails, and created a step deck (I think that’s what it’s called)

Thoughts? on the design? it feels like a lot of foam.

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First off, good job on trying to build your own blank! Did you do a double concave out the back or just a vee off of the tail? It probably feels like a lot of foam because there generally is a lot of foam in these boards since they are so small. Here’s a few tools that’ll make your EPS shaping experience a whole lot easier. Microplane makes some great products that cut, instead of pull, the beads.

http://shop.fiberglasshawaii.com/tools/small_tools?order=0&view_all=0&page=36

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Hmm is that the same microplane I use for kitchen? I'll have to take a look and check it out. Thanks for the feedback.

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Hey I like the template or outline of the board, looks really good.

heres a few things you may want to consider for the next one

The stringer is not straight because your cut is not straight, use a skill saw and a straight edge( i like to use my template and cut along the machine edge center of it as it curves to the rocker) when splitting the blank and take your time…

I think leaving the stringer exposed and not painting over it gives a better look and is stronger as the resin bonds to the wood well and creates a “I Beam” effect…

I have found with EPS unless you have a large block and can hotwire a full shape out of it , gluing up sections or stringers to make a blank as pictured below is a better way to control your rocker and foil and takes a lot of the work out of shaping too, ok hope that helps otherwise good effort and nice documentation showing what your doing!

 

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Hi Kairo-

This is an awesome build thread!  Love the pics and descriptions.  Did you get our E-Z Shaping Pad to help you shape the EPS?  It along with the E-Z Abrasives works incredible.  Super true and cuts smooth without taking the beads out.  We do have the Micro Tools too but they don’t cut EPS super well from our experience.

Thanks for the support.

See you soon-

Brad

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Great advice NoOcean, it sure helps to have those parralel lines to true everything up.  Have you thought about putting some color into your glue to really add to the look of those boards?

Dan down in SD makes his blanks just like you using EPS scraps from different blank makers.

Keep up the great work.

Brad

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Thanks nocean,

Some good things to consider for next time. I like the exposed stringer look too and I’m thinking of maybe shaving off the paint there. I’ll keep you updated.

ez,

your store and staff are really cool. But I did not get those items. I think as iget deeper into shaping ill have to buy more tools.

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So I put two 4 oz s cloth laminate on top and one 4 oz on the bottom. Then put an extra layer of resin on both the top and bottom and let it sit for about a week. 

I’m going to sand down the grips and edges and what not but I noticed that the epoxy glass doesn’t feel as strong as my other boards. Almost spongy. Doe I need to add another layer of resin? Did I do something wrong?  Noing looks abnormal it just feels weak. I wonder if its the foam.

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That brand of foam here in Hawaii is extra soft, like less than 1lb EPS. You might want to sand down the lamination till you see weave then add more glass. Another layer to the bottom and 2 to the top minimum. 

We’ve used that brand of foam for Balsa Compsands and they seemed soft and flexy. 1/8" balsa skins are very strong, about as strong as 12oz of glass, and we add more glass over the balsa.

You may also have issues with fin boxes using soft foam. We place a layer of woven bamboo between the top and bottom sheets and the fin boxes are embedded in that layer. If we don’t have the bamboo “springer”, I use 1/4" balsa running perpendicular to the box to give it more support. I’ve had boxes come loose in other boards with out the extra support.

You could place a high density or wood plug in the board then install the boxes into those plugs.

Which ever way you choose, do that before you add more glass. You might be able to paint it over to hide it before you add the glass.

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Thanks shark,

Yeah I thought it was the foam. I’ll have to see how much glass I have left to do it. For fins ill probably return the FCs plugs I bought and do glass ons instead.  Thanks again.

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I have considered doing the same with XPS.  If you don’t mind some questions:

What type of glue do you use?

How are you cutting your foam stringer/rocker strips?  Hotwire?  Jigsaw?

I am guessing you mean easier than shaping an uncut EPS foam block?

Sorry for the short diversion kairosguy.  Hope you don’t mind.

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Alright so after a lot of travelling, I finally have gotten time to work on the board.

I cut 1 4 oz s cloth layer for the bottom taped the back to get that hard edge and mixed about 15 oz of resin and went at it with a squeegee and resin ( I had some leftover)

There was a really good article on Foamez.com around epoxy and tips that you should definately check out before glassing. I will say that I was surprised that the epoxy in the container that I mixed heated up so quickly while holding it. It turns out I should have poured it all out first as it won’t kick as fast outside of the container.

 

Cut out the S cloth for the top (2 4 oz layers)

One layer was cut close to the actual outline and the other layer was about 2-4 inches longer. 

If you look in the background you’ll see a heater. i did it at night and since it’s RR I wanted to make sure the room was warm enough to glass. I mixed about 15 ounces.

The top lamination went alot easier than the first one. I definately got used to the idea of soaking the cloth first and then moving resin around and it went much quicker than the first time. 

I made the mistake of using a sharpie for the bottom dimensions and it smeared a little.  (Pic to come) Oh well.

 

I waited about 2-3 hours in between the top and the bottom and then a few days before the Hot Coat.

 

For the hot coat,I mixed the resin with about 2 capfulls of additive F, and went to town with the hot coat. Learning from my laminating experience, I poured most of it out first and then started going around catching the drippings and taped off the right edges to keep the dripping to a minimum. I used a foam brush and did the whole, top to bottom, bottom to top. side to side and repeat. I also added some graphics that I printed on tissue paper. Just let it settle in under the epoxy and squeezed out any air bubbles.

I let it dry about 2-3 hours before I flipped it and put the hot coat (had to tape the rails and bottom)

 

I waited about a week and then I started to sand it. I realized I had some major bumps and lumps, especially in the bottom back and where the tape was. Stupidly I started sand blocking with 40 grit. This was great and remove the big bumps but let scratches in the board later. After I got all the major bumps out, I went down to 80, then 100 something, 200 something, 300 something and ended on 400 something. In retrospect, if I did not do this by hand, i think i would used the sander at 200 or 300 something to really get a good even sand.

 

Now i’m at a point where the board is there, sanded somewhat but not complete done. There are shiny parts here and there and some weave showing. I think i’m going to add the leash plugs, vent and fins and then do a final coat with whatever resin I have left and do a final sanding. More to come and i’ll get more pictures up when I get home.

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So--------- If you've changed your mind about the plugs and your plan is for glass-ons;  You should have done the glass-ons before hotcoat(s).  Otherwise if you were doing plugs and leash plug;  They should have been installed after hoatcoat and before sanding. The extra work involved should be pretty obvious if you give it some serious thought.  Question; Did you spackle the entire blank and then paint the entire blank white and orange??

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thanks mcding, yes I am planning on doing the fins glass on now. I just added the vent and leash plug today and started on the fins by coating them with some resin. I guess at this point the strength is compromised then. Hmm well let’s see what happens. Not much I can do now right?

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Yes there really is a method to the madness.  I would probably never use HD foam to make a blank, but if I did the best method is the one described above, using the thin multiple strips cut to your desired rocker, glued together.  That method was documented by a Sways member here a couple of years ago and his board actually turned out pretty decent.  I think also in the Archives that most Sways members have come to the conclusion that the brown foamy Gorilla glue pulls EPS beads and shouln't be used.  I've glued quite a few EPS "slab" blanks and used the "white" Gorilla Glue, Regular Elmers "carpenters" glue or "Roo Glue".  Roo Glue is an excelllent glue for this purpose and you can't go wrong with a product made in Oregon.  If you spackle the entire blank and sand you can usually clean up the pulled beads and voids.  Although better to use unthinned spackle on the larger voids and chunks before applying your coat of thinned spacle over the entire blank. I've shaped and glassed for a long time, but it was only two years ago when I did my first EPS slab blank hotwired out of  2 lb. foam, spackled and painted.  If done right you can't tell it from Polyurethane. Do more research on #3.  There is an order to the process.  Have a plan. Seems to me you should have been able to do an HD blank/surfboard for less money.  You've got enough in it to have bought a decent blank.  But; It's a good learning experience.  I guess.

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Thanks McDing, I appreciate your feedback and have much more respect and admiration for people like you who have been shaping and glassing for some time.

Absolutely a learning experience and not a financial vs quality  project. After all is said and done, I put in about $300 on the materials to build the blank and glass it with epoxy and S cloth and then another $100 on some tools like jigsaw, workbench, drill bits, sand paper, buckets, paint brushes. (etc). To your point, for the same amount I probably could have gotten a blank, and had it glassed for the same price (Or someone to make me one completely), but damn it, this was fun as hell to work on and I can’t wait to finish it and ride it. I’m almost done and hopefully I can get a few good waves before it all comes crashing down on me.