“I think it is still the guy RIDING the waves responsibility to not run over guys in the water.”
Amen.
whole-heartedly agree about surfer in the wave responsible (for the most part) for not running over others in the water.
i hate crowds and find waves that may not be as great, but are definitely empty, so traffic is not an issue.
still seems like at 10-11’, 23-ish is the sweet spot based on the old timers’ 
experiences.
thanks everyone.
My newest board is 21" wide - but it’s a gun… It’s 9’6"x21"x3"… The wide point is forward and I like how the rail lines turned out. 
The surfer under power has the ability to avoid or create a collision…up to a point. The line up has grown a lot in the last 5 years but I’m seeing it spread vertically at a greater rate than it has horizontally. The path to a natural bottom turn has become so clogged that accidents and intentional accidents are happening all over. SUP’s are hitting everyone, longboard are hitting everyone, mid lengths are hitting everyone, shortboarders are hitting everyone and the body boarders and hand plane guys are hitting everyone too.
When I take off on my 12’er I’m picky. I let a ton of waves go by than the one lines up and I’m on it. I’m navigating the wave and the bodies but never at the expense or injury to another unless I’m being continually mugged. Then I’ll stuff you, out surf you and if it comes to it I’ll help you off your board but I will not intentionally run over. Certainly I’ve blown it and swam and have accidentally hit people with a loose board and that is a terrible feeling. Awful.
So yeah go 20", 21" or 22" or whatever. Make it with some curve and surf the snot out of it.
Beautiful board Da5id, love to see more shots of it. Love the 10-6 by 22 1/2" glider ICC posted too.
I built a 9’ glider and went 22" wide to get the curve I wanted, so 23" seems logical if I were going 10’ or more in length. But realistically I think 9-6 is about the max I would consider going at this point.
I would rather ditch a wave than hit someone, but I have accidentally run over people paddling out and felt awful. It gets thick sometimes, and it’s a challenge to avoid hitting anyone.
This thread has got me thinking about gliders again, fun boards for fast peeling point break waves.
My two gliders are both single fin boards, wonder if any other fin configurations are compatible with the classic glider shape.
You forgot the cluless Wavestorm Costco brigade. I made some pretty nice 5 fin 11’ers that did way more than go straight. This was pre internet so it did not happen.
Many Gliders, including Frye’s and Mabiles, are built with 2+1 fin set-ups, the sidebites positioned closer to the front of the rear fin Widowmaker style vs. the more forward 15" to 16+" of a 2+1 HPLB. More condusive to gliding into turns vs. the carving turns possible on a shorter HPLB.
The shaper I referenced came back from CA last year with an aged 9’6 Skip Frye glider he picked up from the Bird Shed that he called the best turning board he had ever ridden, and that started his drive to perfect his own style of gliders.
So to establish a baseline, we spent some time with the Frye and his favorite similar boards from Christenson and Andreini, measuring bottom rocker, rail profiles, etc. and found a constant across them.
All the boards employed a forward slot concave, with the bottom break up to the rails from the outer edges of the concave creating a forward tri hull. Each had their own variation in width and depth of the slot concaves, which changed the respective angles of the break to the rails. All featured belly entry to slot concave to flat to double concave, and pretty much continual progressive rockers. The primary differences between the boards was in the respective slot concaves and rail/foil profiles.
Watching my friend exiting heavy barrels on his glider last week that were routinely eating up shortboarders was an eye opener to their potential…
This interests me a lot, would love to see any pics you care to share, or diagram of rail profile etc. Is he toe-ing / canting the side bites? Seems to me the widowmaker setup was neither, will have to research that.
A friend has a genuine ‘Widowmaker’ that was shaped by the original designer of the species. Will add photo below.
I also have a photo of the bottom of a Frye-like glider that shows what I think is one of the elements that make those huge boards more maneuverable… there is a specific area ahead of the fin(s) where the tail rocker breaks. This is where I have found a hard down rail edge. Immediately ahead of that spot is where he rolls the bottom and transitions the hard rail to a soft rail.
That hard rail to soft rail transition zone is also a key to the genuine mini-simmons that I watched Joe Bauguess shape at a Sacred Craft show. Again, there was a specific zone he really had worked out to the last detail where the tail rocker, single concave and belly all came together. Sorry, I did not have a camera for that one.
PS - The base of center fin on the WM is about 6" - you can do the math.
believe the sidebite are slightly canted/toed, next time I swing by will try to tremember to take a pic.
Regarding rails - Andeini favors a thinner foil/rail, Frye a much fuller foil/rail, and Christenson basically splits the difference. All 3 boards featured rolled rails up front that progressively drop to very hard in the tail.
Think the takeaways regarding this thread is that gliders need width to create the needed curves, concave channeling the water helps accelerate the glide, and other then that, different way to get there as long as it all ties together…
Long and narrow… and back to the original subject. Dave Parmenter, who originally designed and shaped the ‘Widowmaker’ models, also has been doing (for many years) a design that is a paddle/surf hybrid. It is very long and very narrow - I think the one I sampled was 12’ long and 19" wide(?)
Down at Waterman’s Guild right now are 2 brand new versions awaiting pick-up. The photo has not been stretched or modified - they are really that long and pointy.
From what I understand, DP has a ratio of paddle to surf functionality… I.E. 70% paddle/30% surf or 80%/20%, etc. I don’t remember what the ratios are on any of these but the one I test rode several years back was pretty stiff as a rider. That said, it definitely hauled ass in the little peelers I caught.
So the “extra” length is for paddling? Or is there some theory to it adding speed on the wave face? Cuz it seems to me there would be little advantage, surfing speed wise, to adding more length after a certain point. Also curious what size waves would be ideal for one of those narrow 12 footers?
Four to five feet. In 1962 an engineer/surfer friend, one Michael McDonough, postulated that board size should be inverse to wave size. Smaller waves, bigger boards. Bigger waves, smaller boards. Isn’t that what we see today? Especially since the rise of tow-in surfing.
I forget the ratio formula but there is some sort of hydrodynamic hull theory that specifies length to width as far as creating drag and wake in a test tank. Real waves are so dynamic…
I live in SD - so this is interesting.
I surf a longboard when it is small. But I tend to surf smaller boards when it gets bigger. It’s mainly because when it gets bigger, the waves tend to get steeper before they break so a lot of times it really doesn’t matter what size of board you are trying to ride, so a smaller board gives more freedom and is a smaller piece of shrapnel when you get caught by a bomb…
But for paddle in, when the waves go above 10 or 15’ the boards tend to get bigger… No?
Huck: “Also curious what size waves would be ideal for one of those narrow 12 footers?”
I think that would depend entirely on the specific wave and rider skill/style. I rode one of those skinny 12+ footers in waves up to shoulder high. I don’t think it would have been any problem to ride bigger ones. If that’s all I had and a bigger set came through, I’d give it a go.
As far as bigger boards/smaller waves and vice versa… somebody famous once said something about having to catch 'em to ride 'em. I agree with Da5id on that one… at a certain size, bigger boards (paddle-in surfing) become an advantage.
And mass, buoyancy, planing speed, etc.
Sorry but.
I find humor in this…
As I had barely returned to this art, when
I fell into a ring of, well, fire.
Skip Frye sure got my attention (spy shot).
The seach, continious…
Hi Matt -
That is a nice video of Skip Frye. He doesn’t appear to waste a lot of motion does he?
As you know, I’ve always liked the looks of your longboards. I’m guessing those are in the 10 foot range and 22 1/2"-23" wide? Maybe 15 1/2"-17" across in the tail (12" up?) CLEAN curves! They remind me of some of the outline curves I have on a couple of boards that match up with a Yater Surftech… I snagged them from magazine photos of two DaCat models - one counterfeit and one original. I scaled them up, transferred to Masonite and BINGO! They lined right up with my Yater. The dimensions weren’t necessarily exact but the curves sure as hell were.
LMAO!!!
“DaCat model - one counterfeit and one original. I scaled them up, transferred to Masonite and BINGO! They lined right up with my Yater.”
Being a “Old school BU”
Dora, loved his!
At the time Rennie intruduced 'em…
All the “Hot guys” rode Spoons.
A very important board.
Yater is to humble…
Cheater
Model A
Powerflex
Bigler Classic
I sure I missed a few “benders”
Oh
Cat!