"I’m certain that people will look back at 2006-8 and go, “that was the time when the Guru shaper, as in the ‘craftsman’ (and I hope to put myself in that bundle too because I’ve been shaping for the past 35 years) will be [resigned] to history. We’ll be proud of that history, but there’s so much happening with technology.
…
Surfboards shapers must step up and [also] be designers. We made a stance with that – there wasn’t going to be any egos attached to Firewire. You don’t see ‘snowboard shapers’, you see the athletes name on the snowboard; you don’t see a golf-club designed by a designer… It’s the same with the surfboard industry. We’re one of the last industries that has ‘guru’ shapers … they’re all geniuses … but there comes a time when an industry has got to step up and use science to prove what they’re doing. Fins have already done it. FCS and Futures and all the other companies have used science to improve the performance of a fin, but a surfboard manufacturer can’t do that because he doesn’t have a static base to start from." Nev Hyman, Firewire
According to Nev Hyman anyway. SO line up everyone, Nev and company are ready to pop out boards for each and everyone of you. Hooray for ‘progress’.
Balsa, Love the quote from Victor Hugo. “If there’s only one left, I’ll be the one.”
Personally, I just don’t see the disappearance of the master craftsman. Certainly the industry is changing. Large manufacturers have been involved with surfboards for decades. They’ve employed production methods and schedules and have dramatically different goals from smaller operations that focus on individual clients and custom boards. So what’s new ?
What’s new is the technology integrating itself into both mass produced and custom produced surfboards. It’s available to all shapers and manufacturers - large and small.
Many of today’s master shapers are using software and machine to design and shape excellent surfboards. Most of today’s large manufacturers are using the same technology. They focus on different surfer / clients. It’s always been that way and probably always will be that way.
Shaping great surfboards requires imagination, observation, and the skill to translate design into reality. Hand shaping great surfboards takes years to master. Combine the experience of decades of hand shaping with current technology and the results are awesome.
The best surfboards will always be those designed and shaped to best suit the relevant needs of surfers by reputable master shapers with years of experience regardless of the tools they use.
I seem to be hooked on making boards for myself, and it works cause what ever i want is what i get…and if i dont get what i want i get to have another go at it.So i dont think that will ever change, and i may be a green horn and not a master shaper to anyone else…but in my own mind i am what ever i want to be.The only thing that affects my world is how much money/time i can spend doing it while still having some decent quality time with my beautiful wife.
Gentlemen, Swaylocks is about enjoying the art of surfboard constuction. Their are people from every facet of the art. while they are still blowing foam their will still be shapers as there are painters , furniture makers ,boat builders and saddlers. people still want the real thing.
There will be people making surfboards long after foam disappears or gets passed up for better technology.
Lots of modern style boards are being made from wood like Agave, Balsa and Paulownia. Paul Jensen and all the hollow wood board builders don’t need foam either.
As long as there are waves to ride, there will be a need for someone to build something to ride them with. I personally have a tremendous respect for all of the people making a complete board, not just shaping or glassing, and then take them out and push them to the limits.
I agree with everything thats been said so far. I honestly don’t know how Nev could really think that the custom board market, or at least the low volume shaper, will go away. In my mind its difficult to equate surfing to snowboarding or gold clubs too. I dont golf, but someone else pointed out that some of the most desired clubs are built by ‘small’ companies. As far as snowboards, maybe it was well before my time but I can’t remember a time when snowboards were ever built one at a time for a specific person’s needs and skills.
Surfboard shaping is an art, functional art at that. Would you want a poster of a Salvador Dali from Walmart if you could get an original for the same price? Of course you would want the original. Thats what we have here. For the same price as any Thailand import you can get a board shaped specifically for your needs from one of those ‘guru’ shapers.
At least all the marketing dollars Nev has spent so far have him fooled.
Surfboards shapers must step up and [also] be designers. We made a stance with that – there wasn’t going to be any egos attached to Firewire. You don’t see ‘snowboard shapers’, you see the athletes name on the snowboard; you don’t see a golf-club designed by a designer… It’s the same with the surfboard industry. We’re one of the last industries that has ‘guru’ shapers … they’re all geniuses … but there comes a time when an industry has got to step up and use science to prove what they’re doing
I don’t know…maybe Nev would like to have those comments back. They don’t even make sense in the context presented. “Use science” seems to equate to not having an identified designer here…is he intending to let Science design surfboards? At least he wouldn’t have to pay for health insurance for Science. When I read or hear the word “Designer” bandied about with too much reverance I can’t help but think “Fashionistas” aren’t far behind. As to getting rid of the Gurus, well, Apple Computer has done okay with Steve Jobs back in the saddle.
When Nev started FW he wanted to perfect shaping and felt the way to do that was through technology. Couple million dollars worth of CNC machines later and he may have a point. Repeatable shapes accurate to within 1/1000th of an inch.
But I personally see the sense in talented hand shaping. There is still a place for that in part because machines aren’t yet in the hands of enough people … leaves a narrower design range than hand shaping presently does.
Machines are just a tool, a newer and perhaps more efficent one than a Skill 100. For now both exist and will for some time. But eventually Nev’s vision is probably right. No one will have the numbers that some of us have today and they won’t. Becker will always be the king … the one who’s done the most for all time to come. Guys like Aipa, Martin, Bordeli, Yater, and so many more will gradually die out as the machines do the mass quanties.
Egos and gurus have nothing to do with a board that rides good. Some of the garage boards built right here are superior to most of the guru produced production crap being foisted on the public as brand name cool.
But as far as the machines rise, much will be lost but in many ways that’s what “progress” usually does to us.
I don’t see Ben Aipa dropping out of the shaping scene as long as he can still hold his skill 100. There’s just way too much demand for his boards.
Here’s a guy that shapes great boards and can ride his boards as well as the kids. He’s still pushing the creative envelope too. I always enjoy picking his brain about board design and what he’s currently doing.
Just like George Downing, when Ben is gone his son Akila will still be here to fill in where Dad left off.
If you’re on Oahu, stop by the Downing shop and check out the Agave gun George made last year. He’s a living legend, and Keone has benefitted from 50+ years of learning from him.
Ben and George are master shapers who surely belong on the short list of “the best”.
He needs to articulate it better to suit me (I bet that will keep him up at night!). Unless we’re talking the most rudimentary form of machined block scrubbing I would offer that all shapers are “designers” too, to one degree or another. And you are right, Greg, about all the new tech just being literal tools. Machines are great for precision and especially precision reproduction. As to design, they are only as good as who inputs the data.
In another lifetime I occasionally dealt with a legendary branch of the Lockheed corporation. One time we got a purchase order to make tooling and make a pre-form for a part they would later machine to their print. All we got was a CAD sheet drawing with max and min part tolerances. The drawing showed a “round” item with about 30 facets on the edges…like an octagon times 4…which in theory could be machined but could never be spun (we were a metal spinning house). I called the buyer who rather brusquely asked me why we couldn’t do a simple thing like that after all these years…one of those fun times with people you’ve dealt with for years…I told him to go get the drawing sent to us. He took one look at it…“I don’t know what the hell they’re thinking. Nobody can spin that. I don’t even think we can machine that!” Turns out the engineers were playing with the computer…rather than simply drawing two circles and writing in the dimensions they plotted various points and hit a button for the machine to “do the work”…and it took the most direct path from one point to the next. But the purchase orders read specifically “make to print”…
I can’t really fathom the notion that the machines will be creating the boards without near-total guidance of shaper/desingers…and it isn’t clear to me what Nev meant in his quoted comments. That shapers won’t get their hands dirty any more? Okay…then they aren’t shapers any more…they’re designers. I doubt that will do away with the notion of “Guru-hood”. Tomato/tomahto.
As to selling the goods, I would point out that in the much-maligned Surftech/popout world the models are almost exclusively marketed by the shaper/designer’s name. How cynical would it be to write a check and slap a surfer name on it and expect the consumer to buy it without having a clue as to who and what is behind the design? Oh, wait…
That’s sort of my point, and Nev’s too. The decendants of George and Ben will eventally have their own CNC’s … a more efficient machine. If they don’t already have one. Shaping will be done on a computer screen. It’s happening everywhere now. Merrick has his own, Patterson, Rusty, Biolas, so many others. I’ll bet there’s over 50 machines in CA right now. Probably a dozen in HI.
And I totally agree, both those guys are true legends.
If these fellows are the next up and comers, Nev may be correct on this one. From the sound of it, it’s gonna be all about graphics and the rider’s name… just like the skate catalogs.
Oh yeah - and the shape of course. Just pick the generic model your hero rides and think to yourself, “I pretty much surf like him so I should be riding a board like his.”
In 1998, having suddenly had a good amount of money just dropped on me (won at the french lottery), I had the opportunity to invest in a number of things I never would have thought of before. That’s how I came into this guy’s small shop in Bayonne, where he was making all sort of things with leather, from purses to boots. We got to talk a bit and I suddenly felt like ordering a pair of custom-made boots. I had my measurements carefully taken in many places around both my feet, spent some time choosing the kind of leather I would like them made of, color, heel style and so on. A few weeks later I got a call from the guy to come and try the boots before he would finish them, just to be sure everything was OK. When I slipped them on, I KNEW what I had been missing for all those years.
Double the price of any machine-made pair of boots.
It’s 2008 now and I still have them. Got the soles changed once two years ago. I’ll probably give them to my son someday…
Any machine-made model would not have made it past two years or so. And certainly wouldn’t have fitted me so well.
Do you think it was an expensive buy? I don’t.
The same probably holds true for many other things from suits to guitars. Stop thinking that craftsmen will die. When you realize that not all things are just to be used and then thrown away, you’ll turn back to them.