So I’m just drifting out of sleep this morning, and out of nowhere pops the question: “Where did the unwritten guidelines for surfboard width come from?” Why do we stay between those 17" to 25" marks when blowing blanks or shaping width? Has anyone ever tried making a wider board? No wait, I know: “Someone experimented with that back in the 70s but the concept never made it to the mainstream” right? Seriously, I know if you made it much wider, width might interfere with paddling…UNLESS you took cues from the Swizzle (parabolic rails) and narrowed things in certain areas and put more width in the right spots… So…Anyone ever tried going beyond a 25-inch-wide board? What would the ride be like if you were actually able to make nice proportions with a 30-inch…or wider…board? Would it just be stiff? Or would you have a high-speed hydroplane on your hands? Just curious. This crazy thought popped straight out of my subconscious, so don’t laugh if this all this sounds weird…Thanks…deeb…
Just measured my “Hawaian Paipo Designs” Paipo and guess what? 30" wide at widest point near tail. Of course it’s only about 1/2" thick and the forward part narrows considerably so carrying it is not a problem. Carrying wide thick surfboards has been a problem for me just because I can’t get my arms around the things! A friend’s Weber Performer at 23"+ and 3 3/4" thick is a little too much for me to carry under my arm and my arms are fairly long. I saw mag ad for some rail hooks (?) to extend arm reach and I guess on top of the head is an option too.
Just measured my “Hawaian Paipo Designs” Paipo and guess what? > 30" wide at widest point near tail. Of course it’s only about > 1/2" thick and the forward part narrows considerably so carrying it > is not a problem. Carrying wide thick surfboards has been a problem for me > just because I can’t get my arms around the things! Good point. Interesting about the paipo width. I figured human anatomy might be a factor, but we’ve always found ways to get around that (with all kinds of inventions), so I thought there must be another reason. My widest board is 24.5 wide and 3.5 thick at the widest point. I’ve got a pretty long reach, but it can be a little difficult if I try to hold it at the wide point, so I just shift my arm back a little when carrying…or flip it up overhead. But for some time, I think the carrying-size has been far down on the priority list. Although carrying-weight (which also affects human anatomy) may have been a factor in the transistion from redwood to balsa to foam, the manueverability of a lighter board seemed more important. In the same manner, I can’t see how our arms’ length would be the main determinant in designing width. ??? Maybe there’s no great answer? Who knows??? Thanks for your response, John.
Sorry I’m just kidding!I knew someone else(a few years ago) that was going to pore his own blanks to accomidate a 30" wide board.Don’t know if he did it.Herb.
A guy used to sell rail hooks to extend reach around wide long boards but I don’t know if he’s still around. On top of your head works too - unless it’s too pointy like mine. For more on Paipos check this link… http://www.paipo.com/
So I’m just drifting out of sleep this morning, and out of nowhere pops > the question: “Where did the unwritten guidelines for surfboard width > come from?” Why do we stay between those 17" to 25" marks > when blowing blanks or shaping width? Has anyone ever tried making a wider > board? No wait, I know: “Someone experimented with that back in the > 70s but the concept never made it to the mainstream” right?>>> Seriously, I know if you made it much wider, width might interfere with > paddling…UNLESS you took cues from the Swizzle (parabolic rails) and > narrowed things in certain areas and put more width in the right spots… > So…Anyone ever tried going beyond a 25-inch-wide board? What would the > ride be like if you were actually able to make nice proportions with a > 30-inch…or wider…board? Would it just be stiff? Or would you have a > high-speed hydroplane on your hands? Just curious. This crazy thought > popped straight out of my subconscious, so don’t laugh if this all this > sounds weird…Thanks…deeb… Hey, Deeb, That
s not weird at all... in fact, you snagged the question that I was planning to post next Sunday night: how many of our commonly accepted surfboard contours and dimensions are related to pure function, how many are factored around the human bodys limitations and how many are mostly eye candy? By the way, that state of mind between sleep and waking is where a lot of really great ideas come from!
Just measured my “Hawaian Paipo Designs” Paipo and guess what? > 30" wide at widest point near tail. Of course it’s only about > 1/2" thick and the forward part narrows considerably so carrying it > is not a problem. Carrying wide thick surfboards has been a problem for me > just because I can’t get my arms around the things! A friend’s Weber > Performer at 23"+ and 3 3/4" thick is a little too much for me > to carry under my arm and my arms are fairly long. I saw mag ad for some > rail hooks (?) to extend arm reach and I guess on top of the head is an > option too. My best old paipo is suspended in the surfmat loft, about 3
-6" long x 32" across the back edge... a tuned, flexible fiberglass and epoxy spoon with a supple and thin, removable "false deck" of soft polyethelene foam... seen from the bottom, it looks sort of like a gigantic black guitar pick. The extreme width across the back provides for unbelievable lift, just like a birds outstretched wings, prior to dropping down the face. Something to think about…
I was really torn between one of these and one of your mats. The local shop cut me a “bro” deal recently on their last paipos and I went for it. When cash permits, I still hope I can procure one of your mats. I was hoping to connect with you for pointers on basic paipo board handling and riding techniques which I’m sure you are well versed in. Thanks, clueless paipo kook P.S. - I linked to your website from Rod’s Paipo Page after I read about Neumatic Surfcraft in Surfer’s Journal.
That’s “pour” not pore…sheeesh!
I was really torn between one of these and one of your mats. The local > shop cut me a “bro” deal recently on their last paipos and I > went for it. When cash permits, I still hope I can procure one of your > mats. I was hoping to connect with you for pointers on basic paipo board > handling and riding techniques which I’m sure you are well versed in.>>> Thanks,>>> clueless paipo kook>>> P.S. - I linked to your website from Rod’s Paipo Page after I read about > Neumatic Surfcraft in Surfer’s Journal. John, Hey, not to worry, someday you`ll have both! If a more traditional paipo is used: like finless, 3/4" or much less thin and perhaps pounds heavy, basically rockerless with maybe a little upward roll in the rails which gradually increases toward the nose, plywood, high density foam/fiberglass, or almost solid glass and resin… looking like a gigantic, triangular guitar pick… and given the opportunity to prove itself to you, it can be quite exciting: providing the sensation of clean, ultra fine-slicing high velocity, they can drift and side-slip like ice on teflon, usually function increasingly better as the surf gets hollower, bigger and more powerful, offer the glide of a freekin sea bird, duck dive almost effortlessly (because of the low bouyancy) and make some impossibly critical, late take-offs… those are most of the upsides… sound like fun?
that DOES sound like fun! I believe the one I have is the high density foam/fiberglass type - shaped like a guitar pick. Paul Lindbergh makes them 30" wide at the rear “wings” and a little roll and kick in the front. He apparently uses a type of mold/press to accomplish the curvatures. It also has a 1/4" thick rubber mat on the deck. It is a nice shiny black. Of course, the website for Hawaiian Paipo Designs shows one hot rider arching his way down an immense Pipeline barrel. I hope to start in something a little less life threatening. Thanks for your response Dale!
that DOES sound like fun! I believe the one I have is the high density > foam/fiberglass type - shaped like a guitar pick. Paul Lindbergh makes > them 30" wide at the rear “wings” and a little roll and > kick in the front. He apparently uses a type of mold/press to accomplish > the curvatures. It also has a 1/4" thick rubber mat on the deck. It > is a nice shiny black. Of course, the website for Hawaiian Paipo Designs > shows one hot rider arching his way down an immense Pipeline barrel. I > hope to start in something a little less life threatening. Thanks for your > response Dale! John, Paipos like yours love violent, heavy waves. You just bought the stealth bomber of bodyboards…
John,>>> Hey, not to worry, someday you`ll have both! If a more traditional paipo > is used: like finless, 3/4" or much less thin and perhaps pounds > heavy, basically rockerless with maybe a little upward roll in the rails > which gradually increases toward the nose, plywood, high density > foam/fiberglass, or almost solid glass and resin… looking like a > gigantic, triangular guitar pick… and given the opportunity to prove > itself to you, it can be quite exciting: providing the sensation of clean, > ultra fine-slicing high velocity, they can drift and side-slip like ice on > teflon, usually function increasingly better as the surf gets hollower, > bigger and more powerful, offer the glide of a freekin sea bird, duck dive > almost effortlessly (because of the low bouyancy) and make some impossibly > critical, late take-offs… those are most of the upsides… sound like > fun? What are the downsides, Dale? The old wood ones were heavyweight pieces of non-stoke for me, and that was in warm water. So has anyone here tried riding modern foam/fiberglass skimboards paipo style? They have much narrower tail configurations than trad Hawaiian style paipos but from what I’ve seen they go like hell with riders standing on them. Tex Haines at Victoria Skimboards even put a fin box in at least his personal board a couple of years ago. Nels
What are the downsides, Dale? The old wood ones were heavyweight pieces of > non-stoke for me, and that was in warm water.>>> So has anyone here tried riding modern foam/fiberglass skimboards paipo > style? They have much narrower tail configurations than trad Hawaiian > style paipos but from what I’ve seen they go like hell with riders > standing on them. Tex Haines at Victoria Skimboards even put a fin box in > at least his personal board a couple of years ago.>>> Nels Nels, I would always encourage the prone riding of thin wood boards, if for no other reason than the opportunity to connect with and feel some of the same things that were also experienced by ancient surfers many hundreds of years before. Riding such humble planing devices, especially in challenging surf, can easily give fresh understanding to the idea of raw simplicity not necessarily equating with a lack of serious fun. I have worked through a number of design questions by intentionally beginning with various simple forms of plywood, and then gradually making changes. Over the years, it has greatly annoyed a number of other surfers who were using more expensive, sensitive and well-known equipment… when I
m also out there slicing through the same fast and critical waves on a piece of 1/4" thick wood. That said, there are the potentially negative aspects of riding the more traditional paipos: swimming around almost completely underwater most of the time can get to be old, even in warmer water; being hit by the edge of something as thin and heavy as a paipo can be a serious risk to ones self and others; the boards frequent sensation of lacking directionality and drive can be frustrating; the wide tail of the paipo is often very useful at times, but then again, so is a narrow one... much the same can be said for the paipos knife-thin edges: often thicker is better; a rigid, no rocker design generally translates to relatively limited handling coupled with runaway speed; slamming into and over chop, bumps and ledges while traveling at high speeds on a solid, stiff and very thin board is just not as much fun as it looks… and finally, paipos truly crave heavy, fast and violent waves of consequence and are not nearly as satisfying when used in gentler, slower surfing conditions. The following are some changes that can significantly improve on the traditional paipo`s handling characteristics and their range in average waves: tuned and flexible fiberglass rocker/torque, sharp-edged strakes to separate the chine and planing areas, the addition of removeable, soft and slightly bouyant “false decks” and very shallow, thin and flexible runners or keels. Dale
By the way, that state of mind between sleep and waking is where a lot of > really great ideas come from! … Thanks for grasping my perspective. That state of mind can definitely be a place of inspiration. Several years ago, I wrote my senior paper on Surrealist poetry…now that was an exploration into some interesting sub-conscious territory. I researched for about two full years and quickly found my life imitating the art. Since then, though I’ve distanced myself from that realm, I still find myself a little more “in tune” with that sort of thing, just a little more balanced now. I’ve got a philosophy about these kind of ideas and the value thereof, but I’ll leave that for another time. Bringing this concept back to shaping, it would certainly be nice to have unlimited (or at least less-limited) resources to really put ideas to the test.
Thanks for grasping my perspective. That state of mind can definitely be a > place of inspiration. Several years ago, I wrote my senior paper on > Surrealist poetry…now that was an exploration into some interesting > sub-conscious territory. I researched for about two full years and quickly > found my life imitating the art. Since then, though I’ve distanced myself > from that realm, I still find myself a little more “in tune” > with that sort of thing, just a little more balanced now. I’ve got a > philosophy about these kind of ideas and the value thereof, but I’ll leave > that for another time. Bringing this concept back to shaping, it would > certainly be nice to have unlimited (or at least less-limited) resources > to really put ideas to the test. Deeb, As long as we`re dealing with things surreal… it would be even better to have have endless, uncrowded, quality waves after your unlimited time and resources have resulted in the creation of some very cool, new ideas!