4M Paging Mr Loehr

Rumour has it you may have been one of the few lucky US locker’s who’s actually got to try some Aussie Burger.

Do the big macs live up to their incredible and tasty commercials, or is it just good food marketing ala Gourmet Magazine…

The curious want an objective analysis…

Is the Aussie beef as good as you’ve had living here in the fare land of seppos?

Sorry…

but you know me I started the BillyB pursuit of truth…

Time we open pandora’s box…

and let it fly where it may…

buy buy… or by by?

hey thats funny …

there was no one we know around to watch that surf …

would gregs opinion really count???

theres an impressive list of top 44 and ex 44 in line for a happy meal after sampling some of the taste samples recently and in the past …

but i will leave it up to them to comment on there experiences …

it probably would make more sense for anyone in gregs vintage to rely on his opinion , rather than that of someone 20 or 30 years younger with different tastes …

ok gota get back to the kitchen …

regards

BERT

Sorry Bert

it’s not meant to be a put down but like John Gomes says in the movie Surfers; “talk is cheap, a lot of guys like to talk not so many like to prove it in the water”…

You know many of your fan club here would buy one of your boards sight unseen if they ever showed up here in the states but all that’s come to pass has been alot of talk about seeing or touching them and not about riding them. Speculation galore has fanned the fuel for some time but now we’ve actually got someone who’s been pretty active here and an advocator of the new technology who’s tasted it, taken the white pill to get out of the matrix, so it would be interesting to at least hear his take on it… I’m afraid the talk and white noise here has gotton so loud it’s turning some of the old timers like Honolulu, skeptical about it all. Just like the whole RR story, talk was cheap until people started actually using it and then backed up all the previously questionable claims that were being made before hand. In fact it even helped to bring on new products like the acceleration additive for hotcoats. Die hard poly poopers are dropping to the wayside much faster than I think either you or Greg would believe. And if they aren’t going the E route they are at least going UV…

Greg’s built and ridden tons of his versions of this new epoxy tech so he has a baseline to stand behind his observations regarding where you’ve taken it to the next level…

As always you know there’s a bunch of us just sitting here drooling, doing the I gotta pee in my pants dance, waiting for you and Nev to start dropping your beef at our local seppo franchises…

Like my uncles used to tell us… “eh no worry, just ride-um bra you going figga it out on your own…”

And that we did…

hey oneula…

finally got one of my own that feels “magic” it is actually the second one that i built, but about the 7th one that i glassed. finished it just after the North Shore stopped in the spring… any how it just sat all summer, tried it on a few over head days and it felt like the wrong board for the size of the wave, very pin tail… any how i have ridden it 4 times on the north shore in the last few weeks and i am blown away… my girlfriend and i were out at Puena Point (sp?) last thurs and it was doing it thing all the way through. after my girlfriend says to me “i have never seen you surfing like that, i couldn’t believe your sprays”

the board just feels so alive. it smooths out the drops and just flys off the bottom. i feel much more connected to it than to any board i can remember. i haven’t finished a new one in a while because i really wanted to get some feedback from my self and others that i have made them for, but now i am fired up and i am convinced that really nice ones can be built in a garage… and yah, like you say, if i see a burger nev in a shop i’ll buy it, that is what credit cards are for!

Quote:

“the board just feels so alive. it smooths out the drops and just flys off the bottom”

How do you quantify this “feels so alive” feeling?

is it vibrational?

does it move or flex back?

When I surf I feel everything in my legs since they are acting as the springs between your board and the water. chop, sluggishness, bad rocker, too long, too thick, too wide

you can all “feel” these things as you ride your equipment.

How does it come out of a big carve…

does it die does it accelerate?

do you have to stage or plan your moves in order to make them?

ie position then plant then drive…

or do you just mind surf it

look here or think that and the board follows naturally without any coaxing.

With my surflight the sensation a dull but smooth response you don’t feel all the bumps which is good and bad cause you lose a little touch with the water surface.

In my mind a “magic” board would surf the wave all by itself you just think and it follows you don’t have to preplan your moves ahead of time and never worry that it won’t execute kind of like shoes you walk it happens you don’t have to think about it. I’ve only come close on one design but I wouldn’t call it magic. Kind of how Lopez likes his bolts but not just for a drop and a tube like pipe.

I’d really like a technical breakdown on what’s happening as you surf one of these Burgers and why it makes so much more of a difference than anything else you can get you hands on…

My anticipation of returned flex is what I experience snow skiing.

You initiate your turn

the board stores your energy and applies it back

you use that energy to initiate the next turn and so on until you’ve got a rhythm going on between you the snow, your edges and the compressing and releasing camber. The harder you press the more pop you get back.

I’ve never felt this on a surfboard on a wave like I have on a mountain on a pair of top of the line skis on decent snow.

Maybe I’m off but that’s what I’m envisioning flex and magic to be…

Just need to hear a quantitative and qualitative breakdown about how this stuff really works…

…Hi Bert, what happened with the board for K Slater?..

…He like it?..

…or may be if he dont like it, you can t say it cause your arrive to the USA will have kind of “bad” promotion…

thanks

Hi Bert

Its going to be funny soon if you dont get some one else to put fingers to keyboard

I think some of the crew here want to hear some one other than your self expound the likes or dislikes of these boards

Regards Mike

Ya know, I was wondering the same thing, also about Greg’s boards, but I found out Greg’s designs are with segway composites and PlusOne has a parabolic stringer near to where I live, so at the moment I’ll wait until Greg’s parabolic is out and test it myself.

For Bert’s I was asking if anyone has posted. Someone did post, this was all I could find:

Quote:

[=1] [/url]

[ 2] Backyarder

Secret Harbour, Western Australia

User

Mar 30, 2005, 5:45 PM 



Post #44 of 57 	(594 views) 

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[/] Re: [MaraboutSlim] Parabolic Power System. Paging Greg Loehr [In reply to] Quote | Reply


I am probably not in that "Expert" class you're interested in mate but<span style="font-style:italic"> </span>I have surfed Bert's boards and love them, they paddle faster than anything else I've ridden, they whip around like they were on rails and though wide, still hang in a high speed barrel if you ask them to. As for vertical top to bottom surfing, that's just not me, I prefer to ride the wave and throw the big hack over lots of vert (my age maybe) but the other guys riding them have no trouble at all with it. 

Bert has been making these boards for a very long time so the concepts he adheres to are from years of experimentation and refinement.

I’m fortunate enough to have four children who surf, this unfortunately means I can’t afford custom boards for everyone, otherwise we’d all be riding Sunova boards.

The polyester board I’m shaping for myself at the moment is 6’7" x 22.5" x 2.5" (for 120kg) with a 16.5" tail and a 14" nose, 5" of nose rocker and 2" of tail rocker, flat to double concave bottom, with a smaller middle fin, I’ll use 1 x 4oz on the bottom and 1 x 4oz with a 4oz patch on the deck to keep the weight down.

Thanks

Tim

I am a sea creature[/]

But no one else? Or maybe I haven’t ran into their posts, but mine quickly got left in the dust. I got the ring and its burning a hole in my pocket . . . time to drop it off in a volcano … .

Thanks for brining this up, I saw Oneula that post about you seeing next gen surf stuff awhile back? But it was more like a teaser . . . pretty cool you saw that stuff.

hey oneula…

i am not saying that it does any of the things that your talking about, but maybe it does them all…here is what i am saying… i have been riding poly boards since i was 12, i have ridden a handful of surftech boards, i have ridden boards that i was told were great and boards that were said to be dogs, board that were shaped and glassed by me and some that were made in china by folks who don’t surf… along the way there have been a few that just felt better then all the others for periods of time… my defination of a magic board- a board that for some reason allows you to surf above your normal level…

with my other burger attempts they have felt good, pretty much like any of my normal boards, they turn, they go fast, i have fun riding them (except one of them sucks) but this board does something different.

it feels like more of the board is in contact with the wave more of the time. now in order for this to happen it must be bending and twisting? and i think this twisting and bending is the big difference and is what is giving it an alive feeling, don’t get me wrong it dosn’t feel like a mat or sponge, but some place inbetween that and the slicing feeling of a normal board… hard to pinpoint what is actually going on while screaming down a 12ft face backside with the big rock on the inside in the back of your mind…

Bottomline:

Rumor says Greg got to try them in AUS with the man himself.

With his worldly experience and technical background

he should be able to explain how they worked and why they are or maybe not so different…

This should have a calming effect to the rhetoric and design battles we all have been having…

I’m sure one of these days we’ll all get our chance but someone here already did so it’d be nice if he’d elighten us…

hiro…

I am building Greg’s parabolic stringer blanks, but in limited production at this time. I am expanding my operation to accommodate the need. I assume you have looked at the postings and the Segway Composite web site. I will be adding more info as I progress. If you have a particular size or rocker in mind, let me know, and I’ll get it built for you.

Ken

Aloha! All respects to the innovators. Myself, somehow I am still feeling a little concerned about the scheme to license the “surfburger” technology to various manufacturers in the U.S., and probably elsewhere too. I can’t really see how this is going to boost the revolution among the general public. I can imagine that more wealthy types will be all over it, those that can afford to buy their technical composite wonder boards. After reading about our friend, the poor millionaire …Lost guy, having to “surrender” to the Asian manufactured phenomenon, it seems like only the elite brand names will be rushing to jump all over this stuff, naturally producing them overseas, so they can enjoy that fat profit margin. What about when the big guys and their lawyers start saying that “all you Swaylock’s types can’t use this method or we’ll sue you”. Commercialism and the American way seem to be out of control as it is. Will this help to make it better? Aloha…RH

I don’t remember where I read it, but once something has been published you are not able to patent is (correct me if I’m wrong). So the horizontal stringer, vac bag, etc could not be patented but dialed in specifications could. However. I’ve heard they have developed a whole production system, and thats what they are selling.

As Bert said, if a surfer drops in and no one sees it, did he really drop in at all?

My session was breif but I have to say the feel was there. It felt much different than the overly stiff sandwich boards I’ve built in the past. And lighter than my boards.

As for your concerns RH, the hard core will remain with the local shaper as long as the local shaper can continue to compete with a quality product at a reasonable price. The exterior fluff will look elsewhere as they don’t, and never have, cared anyway. Who can do it cheapest will be the bottom line here. China rules.

So, IMHO the local builder has to be supplied with the tech to stay in the game. There are so many advantages to this for the sport itself that we must continue to push in that direction.

The advantage to all this change can be the potential for the custom local builder to make a vastly better product than the one being built today because of better tech coming from other places. This is something I think we will start to see fall into place. Builders all over are starting to warm up by opening their minds.

So much of our surfboard industry’s problems have to do with being held hostage to one technology and one supplier. We see companies all over trying to “tech up” only to reach the conclusion that advances can only take us so far without lots of work or better tech which takes real world funding. To reach out and almost touch what is possible only to realize that it is out of reach because of our business level is frustrating. The tech is out there for the custom builder! It needs to be provided so that every builder can take advantage.

Poor millionaire board builders who have whisked there way to riches and glory on the coatails of rag merchants without looking to offer better domestic product are a disappointing sign of their own personal shortcomings. These shortcomings translate into shortcuts in their personal business practices. IMHO there’s a better way.

The traditional providers don’t want to invest in new directions so they try everything they can to keep you in their sphere. Who do you think has had the money for many, many years to actually upgrade what the local builder can do? Why do they spread lies and fear instead of better product? This has held the whole thing back. This is going to change … SOON! And it will be available in widespread manner. In the long run I don’t think anyone will be left out and the plan is to provide more and broader oppritunity for builders in the long run.

The local small time builder still provides 95% of the creativity that moves the sport. They can’t be lost.

Aloha! I hear you, and I’m with you! Already, my whole perspective has changed just over the last year. Last year, I was bored and discouraged with the same old way of doing things. Since then, my whole scene has been thoroughly refreshed due to exposure to new technology. I have actually been subscribing to Greg’s theory of offering custom styro/epoxy boards that are light and durable. So many people get a Surftech, especially for the durability factor, only to find that the things don’t really perform like the dream board they’re all pumped-up to be. And still they ding and they break. When I tip them off to my scheme, they’re ready to jump right on it. It’s obvious that a big percentage of these folks would go for the custom option if available. I have no qualms about biting back, after seeing all those S.T.'s taking such a big bite out of the local market here. Revolution! Let’s go!!! Aloha…RH

So Rick do you get the feeling that contrary to Mr. Loehr and Mr. Burger’s contentions to the opposite, that things are turning around much faster here in Hawaii to custom epoxies?

I’m just getting a general vibe that other that UV for poly, there’s alot of folks willing to give the new tech a try.

And that once Laminations has it Epoxy glassing operation up and running full steam ahead, alot of shapers/shops will be able to provide options to go either regular or EPS/Epoxy. Especially if we can get some EPS blanks here that can be machined with the same equipment being used today by everyone.

Like Spindler said somewhere else, the underground word of mouth network is pushing folks to get better quality equipment at not much more in cost… People are learning that there are better alternatives to surftechs, Zee, and boardworks.

Unless the price of Petrol ruins everything, I’d say the future is looking alot brighter at least here in Hawaii for change to this new tech than what Bert and Greg have been complaining about for some time… It’ll be an interesting year…

So Greg

I can’t decipher the one sentence review

More Flexible and Lighter…

good or bad?

I know Nev and Bert are busy lining all their ducks in a row

But if the new technology has made it so much easier to make them

Why are they still so hard to get?

I know we all surf differently but one day I’d really like a detailed recap from someone that goes kind of like this:

When I paddle for a wave; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I take the drop; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I make my frontside bottom turn; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I go back up the face; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I try to arc back down;a poopie does this but a burger does this…

After I make my humongous (curren/peterson) cuttie; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I’m coming 10’ from behind the pocket in the whitewater; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I smack the lip; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I do a floater; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I make my backside bottom turn; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I make my backside re-entry back into the pit; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I pump down the line; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

When I’m in the tube; a poopie does this but a burger does this…

seemingly simple questions but such answers have always alluded us.

My point I guess is who cares how it’s made…

How does it ride compared to what we already have available to us.

…I think, that only the time will prove this…and only the time will say that it isnt a bluff…

Quote:

Thanks for brining this up, I saw Oneula that post about you seeing next gen surf stuff awhile back? But it was more like a teaser . . . pretty cool you saw that stuff.

Well Hiro

I saw what was a very well thought out operation both Meecrafty and Bert can back it up.

The Surflight guys just like Airframe are dead serious about what they are doing and are putting their financial lives behind their dream like Bert’s done. Neat thing is they aren’t locked into just one solution as JJ’s now a principle behind the new Aviso technology being used by Lost and others.

So I bought one to try it out myself (eventhough a couple BBrs warned me off), to give Jim and Jeff a chance to prove themselves just like I gave Jeff Alexander (Gemini), Manuel Caro (Quad fish), Geoff McCoy (Nugget), CMP(Balsa Lam), Dave Parmenter(Stubb Vector) and Terry Chung (Fat Girl) the opportunity to prove what they have all are advocating as the “solution”.

So far the testing has gone slow with my healing gimp and stiff knee (caused by my Gemini) and now my half amputated toe. But both the Surflight and Solo’s Horan replica have been interesting lessons on old and new technologies. Bottom line is that everything so far has required a “specialized” version of surfing to take advantage of… front foot, back foot, quick moves, slow moves meaning that they have one problem or another. And I’ll recap the experience when I’m done like I did on my Gemini and Nugget on another forum…

My opinion is that you need to find out these things for yourself.

Alot of us are doing our darndest to duplicate what Bert’s been doing for many years some are way closer than others but we’re all approaching it differently. So far everything that been mentioned has been subjective other than what Bert has tried to explain to us in his cryptic way. To explain more would give alot away so the best thing I presume is a recap from someone who doesn’t know how it’s made only how it rides. Those comments would make the most sense to us in place of the construction it took to make it work that way…

I was nudged to ask so I did.

Just hope Greg responds with as much honesty and detail as Bill did regarding his question…

Hopefully I’m not insulting Bert it’s not meant to be that way.

It’s just an honest question from a naturally curious idiot…

And you, like me are more than just nothing… maybe just a little more…(sounds like a comment from gerry)

hey reverb …

that k board didnt get to him at the time …

he was supposed to get it at huntington , but he got stuck in south africa because of some airline trouble and missed the contest …

we took it back to oz , where a guy called beau walker started riding it , beau got some new boards so we asked for that one back , he tried every trick in the book to keep it , saying it was the most responsive board he ever had , we ended up handing it to a guy mark visser who is currently doing the QS .last week he rang and said in 2 to 6 foot its better than the best board hes ever owned , but in under 2 foot it feels long as its a few inches longer than his normal dimensions …

slater is waiting for some others now , but curren and sunny are on the program with some new sticks , spreading the word about spring …

theres about another 10 names on the list , so yes oneula , it will be an interesting year …

regards

BERT

Quote:

slater is waiting for some others now , but curren and sunny are on the program with some new sticks

People with nothing else to prove, free to try new things…interesting…

To respond to Rick about licensing the tech, that actually is a good thing in that with the people who pony up and are officially licensed we should be able to assume they have had direct manufacturer training in the process and the customer will not be paying for the learning curve and dismissing tech changes because of the learning curve failures.

Of course, assuming will make an ass outta u and me…but that’s the theory…