I take offense at your implication that the opinions I have stated were compromised by a “conflict of interest”. As a matter of fact I did not ride Bonzers before a couple years ago. Malcomb did not pay us a dime to make a set of 5-fin runners for his design. I’ve stated before that Bonzers need a lot of power in the waves you ride to really come alive. If I had a choice to ride a thruster or a Bonzer in a situation where I had to pump around a huge blasting section, I would take a Bonzer every time. But, most of the time I surf Lowers. So, we rarely have the power or need to the ability to pump around deep sections. So, I never ride my Bonzer out there. Bonzers do pump more efficiently because there is more to push off of. A Bonzer can have a fuller tail outline than a single fin and more fin area on the trailing fin than a thruster. This combination requires that you keep the tail firmly engaged through any turns. If you get weight forward you loose your fins. Since your riding the tail so hard you need alot of flow velocity for the decreased planing area you’re riding. They work with enough power. If they didn’t I would not have pushed to spend $20,000.00 to make an entire new mold for side runners. There would be no incentive. Also the part about flowing turns may have been accurate for three fin Bonzers I don’t know I’ve never ridden one. But, if you want to redirect on a dime you can with a 5-fin Bonzer. You just better be prepared to hang on for the ride. There are pluses and minus to each design and I will never steer someone in a direction I know is false for any reason.
Actually, tom, I was just avoiding naming names. FWIW, I’ve always had the impression you were spot on the money with your descriptions of bonzers (and just about everything else).
To use a sailing analogy, how can you tack faster with a smaller sail and a bigger keel, ceteris paribus?
Poor analogy. W/L buoy race boat today are fractionally rigged with 100% jibs rather than the old masthead 135% jibs they used to use. The keels are deeper drafted and the rudder keel seperation is greater for faster tacking and sheeting angles are tighter for sailing a closer angles to the wind. So, we are using smaller sails and larger keels. They are just in a different geometric configuration.
Blakestah anytime you’re down in the area when a decent size west swell is running. I’ll take you down to a sucking reef break and loan you my Bonzer. With a little focus on the points I’ve made on how they ride differently, you’ll be amazed at how quickly you can snap a turn.
Im sorry, but I was under the impression that concaves like the ones in this board http://www.eatonsurf.com/Bonzer.htm are a signature part of Bonzer boards. In my honest opinion, I would think that the shaper of said Bonzer board would have intended the board to be ridden with the fin setup it was designed for. In my experience, the bottom contours of conventional thruster boards, along with the tail templates are very different than those of the bonzer genera. To go hacking the fin setup off the board and replacing it with one that the board was not designed to use, would be a shame. -Carl
Bonzers do not ACCELERATE FROM RIDER INPUT as powerfully as a thruster.
What?
Given that the Bonzer bottom contours and fins are probably creating more lift than most boards and that lift is a vertical force; then that gives the rider’s downward forces, weight and weight distribution (position on board (trim), and any turning motions), more to work with. More lift plus rider interactions=more velocity.
You could possibly argue the finer aspects of acceleration but not the overall ride of a Bonzer verses a thruster or anything about rider input and power.
I’m trying to get to the issue of what is happening in the following scenario (carefully chosen to be a situation when you need to generate speed). I’m halfway up/down the wave face. A 10-20 yard section in front of me is closing out - I ain’t gonna make the barrel. But there is more wave beyond.
On a thruster, I project towards shore, run in front of the wave, and then turn hard onto my rail and tail fin, and I consciously push the inside rail fin through the turn. As a result. the board accelerates across the wave line. I can feel the force pushing on the fin, and accelerating me. And I may make the section - something I could not do on an old school single. My impression is that my ability to make that section depends entirely on thrust generation, and that comes from a low-cant rail fin.
Where does the speed burst come from on a bonzer, and how do I as a rider lean on the board to get more speed out of it? Do I get all my speed running down the wave face, and then hold it fairly well through the turn? Is there some way I can push through the turn to increase speed more?
That’s exactly the scenario where a Bonzer “accells” over a thruster of similar template and rocker. Especially when you’re in really turbulent impact zones. That big fin and the leverage you gain against the broader tail allows you to have something to really push against and get squirt out of. The depth of the fin (specifically when you’ve run down on to the flats) allows you to reach down into the turbulence and have something to push against. The same slippage that make recovering from tailslides possible is what you’re giving up with a thruster. But, Bonzers have a high initial threshold before they light up. It takes power to make power.
I’d like to respectfully disagree with tom@ though about the power needed for a bonzer to work. I first rode a bonzer in California which has much more power than our normal East coast surf. However the west coast people where describing the waves as gutless at best.
Here’s the cool thing: when the Bonzer “turns on” you can hear it.
Not fin hum or anything like that; it’s more like spray being redirected by the outside fins hitting the bottom of the wave. Enough to notice during a normal bottom turn. I like to think that this is translated into thrust that is being lost on any non-Bonzer.
Sadly, my Bonzer has not “turned on” in a similar way on our weak, under-chest high waves. Tomorrow may be a different story.
I have to disagree again blakestah. Although this is a great debate! IMHO, Drive is a byproduct of several different things combining together all at once. Gravity as you fall down the face. The lateral movent of the wave down the beach. The engaged rail of the board, combined with your weight pushing against it. And of course…fins. In your analogy, one starts to think that if you stood on a thruster in a swimming pool and started to tick tack it like a skateboard…it would take off across the pool. We could go on and on about this, but let me just say this: I own mostly thrusters and still love to ride them. They definately ride waves a bit different. I rode thrusters for 15 straight years after learning to surf on twin fins, then quads. I rode my first bonzer in 1996. I will never be without a bonzer(or several) in my quiver again. When I see waves that are super fast and borderlining on unmakeable…I instantly think of the bonzer and my better chances of making that wave on it. This year I rode my bonzer at 3 foot overhead malibu, reeling overhead rincon as well as waist high rincon, everything from waist high to 10 foot faces at blacks, and a myriad of moods and sizes at swami’s and trestles. I’ve never gone faster on any of those waves before on any board. I would never go to australia or J-bay without a bonzer.
I’ll tell you what: Meet me at rincon this winter when the surf is on(don’t care what size). I’ll bring someone to video. We’ll sit together at the rivermouth. We’ll then watch the footage afterwards to see who connects the dots faster and further!!! Proof will be in the vid! Laters
wow…opinion rampant and emotional ., trruster torque turn flat like a porsche speedster lane change…bonzer echos of the driving glide of the single fin glide … waves you cant make are not the fault of the board only the technique of the pilot on the board …modify ? make another>>> as O.K. ? make another …perhaps a MELLOR yellow the ultimate synthsis of the afore mentioned variables…do it …work? now…ambrose…bonzer? californiaustraianlingo venturia … we surf…to surf
One of the best things about surfing is that it means diffent things to different people. I often wonder why people try to discount diffent designs based on personal experiences(usually one experience) when it’s obvious that some people may be having the time of their life on it!!! Yes, opinoins are like a$$holes, everyones got one! If I talk about a certain design, it’s usually followed by this- IMHO But certain boards make certain waves easier for me. No question! Go surf!
I’m trying to get to the issue of what is happening in the following scenario (carefully chosen to be a situation when you need to generate speed). I’m halfway up/down the wave face. A 10-20 yard section in front of me is closing out - I ain’t gonna make the barrel. But there is more wave beyond.
I’d quickly throw my thruster from half-way up to the lip and slingshot downwards using the wave’s power to gain the speed/momentum I need to make a high speed bottom/forward turn to make the section…wave energy and gravity are your friends. If I dont make the section I still got a rush from the lip riding re-entry. Interesting discussion on this topic but its up to the rider to make things happen. Every design/feature on a surfboard is passive…I dont look a board and say “wow look at the power and speed”…I only say that in reference to waves…the MAIN SOURCE of power and speed comes from the waves youre riding not youre fins or concaves or fill-in-the-blank. Does anyone know of a popular video/film where a Bonzer is used to its fullest potential? I’ve seen some Bonzer video action but it hasnt impressed me much…its seems like hybrid surfing…a little thruster a little single fin. I could see myself making one someday just for fun and giggles…I mean who doesnt want to go fast without having to pump…I dont pump when the waves are bigger so Bonzers are likely excellent in good conditions.
Check out peurto underground 2. Davey miller takes of super late on a double overhead bomb, and lands at the bottom at almost a dead stop. The lip comes over him instantly and you think he’s toast. He comes out of the barrel way down the line doing like 40mph. No pump whatsoever. Yeah, i’m sure the wave had lots to do with it, but check the footage, you’ll be amazed. Like tom @ daum said, the deeper center fin just hooks up and drives him out of the tube. I think a thruster would have just washed out, but who knows! Cheers
Hi guys. I’ve been watching this debate with interest, but resisting jumping into the fray.
Quote:
I'll tell you what: Meet me at rincon this winter when the surf is on(don't care what size). I'll bring someone to video. We'll sit together at the rivermouth. We'll then watch the footage afterwards to see who connects the dots faster and further!!! Proof will be in the vid! Laters
Now, this gave me a great idea, a new kind of surf contest. Since a lot of people here seems pretty burned out on conventional shortboards and such, and many here seem to be over most modern surfing contests… I have a new kind of contest. Swaylocks speed trials. Everyone shows up to a predetermined break on a specific day, maybe have a couple week window where everyone is waiting for the go call on swaylocks. Everyone brings their “Speed board” and we use some kind of radar system speed trap or whatever to see how fast everyone is going. How you generate your speed would be up to you (no motors of course) but the fastest craft/surfer wins. Period. I think that a lot of creativeness would be bred from such a contest. -Carl
“Does anyone know of a popular video/film where a Bonzer is used to its fullest potential?”
popular being the operative word, bonzers have always been marginalized by the surfing mainstream, how many twin keel fish did you see in popular videos and films until this current / upcoming year? it doesn’t mean they didn’t work for the past 30 years
Joel Tudor in Surf Movie rides a 5 fin Bonzer in Hawaii quite well