A little advice needed, board not working for me.

Hi Everyone,  Its my first post but I have been lurking for some time trying to suck up as much information as I can as I plan to have a go at shaping myself a couple of boards this year.

 

   However at the moment i have a problem, I traded in my tufflite Webber which went very well for me and lasted incredibly well (4 years)  I actually forgot what the dimensions were but it was very thin and narrow and approx 6 0  - 6 1 in length, my boards previous to that were always 6 2  x  18  x  2  roundtail   so narrow and thin but enough length to give me stability in Indonesia , usually it was rare for a board to last more than a year without snapping but i was riding lightly glassed boards.  So anyway after realising that i was starting to become one of ‘those guys’ that paddles frantically for waves only to miss most of them I decided that  I had to admit to myself that maybe I had put on too much weight for this particular design - I remember when I bought it I was surprised how buoyant it was.

 

 

So my current board  again dimensions not written on it

6 1   x   19 1/2 or 3/4?  x  2 3/8?

 

So there we go, much more volume but I still wanted to retain the high rocker that the tufflite had so to my amazement it paddled worse than I expected but still I was able to catch waves again much easier,   but turning is a nightmare slidy but also very difficult to turn like there is an anchor attatched to my board  - does this make sense? and also it didnt have much natural speed without working the hell out of the wave    i have gone through every aspect of the board, fin placement, contours, widepoint rails etc and the only thing I could think of making this problem so bad was fairly soft rails (I have always ridden boards with hard rails quite far up)  so I decided to make a project of the board to see if I could maybe fix it and learn some things about surfboard design in the process, so i blended the rails into harder rails from 2/3 down the board and in the process also straightened the rail line a bit (intentionally) although a slight improvement in performance it is still unacceptable.

 

   any ideas why this board just doesnt want to work for me? fortunately I didnt pay much for it after the trade in so it owes me very little and I am currently in South America on a surf trip and looking for an alternative second hand board that I can make a part exchange with the offer of a little extra cash. Fortunately i have a 6 6 with me that goes pretty well (and combined with the deviant fin goes pretty well in small waves too) but I would really like a good small board for the smaller days here.

 

Do you think that it is just the added width that I have never surfed with?  The irony is that the tail was a round tail so i assumed that I wouldnt have any problems with getting a smooth biting turn to happen, oh and yes I have played around with a lot of different fins to no avail!

As I want to start shaping obviously I dont want to make the same mistake, but It’s still pretty confusing to me what mistake I have made and I would be very appreaciative for any ideas on what might have gone wrong

 

Have you thought about the fin positioning? better positioning solves 50% of the problems for me and the other 50 is a bad flow unfderneith the board. [img_assist|nid=1064214|title=5`9 surfboard|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=100|height=75]

this board I shaped is the 6th board for my self

1st board was plain ugly, it was ridable but nothing like good custom performance board

2nd board was a 5`5 stubbie looking thing was also ugly but had a local awsome shaper glassed it for me and he also put the fin positioning for me and it rides like a dream.

3 rd board I went back to 5`9 2 1/8 18 1/8, I put the concaves in and placed the fin my self and it rides like a dog. Worst board I ever ridden.

4 th board I changed the tow angles, cant and put the fins closer to the rails and it started to ride faster and responsive.

5th board I kept the same fin positioning but blended the concaves in to a double and gave the board a harder edge runnin 50cm from the tail.

6th board fixed all the problems that I can feel under my feet and this thing rides like a dream

[img_assist|nid=1064215|title=5`9 deck of surfboard|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=100|height=75]

.

 

 

Sorry this will be a long reply!!

I will go in to details

I figured the fin positiong on the 3rd board had not enough tow and cant and it was set too far from the rail.
When I rode it it had no drive and it also wasnt resposive to any turns. It goes fast in a straight line but it wouldnt respond to the up and down motion where you gain speed from the slight steering of your fins.
like you mentioned “very difficult to turn like there is an anchor attatched to my board”
This was because the side fins where set too straight and the water flow was not creating a uplifint force to drive the board forward, also the low cant angles where not biting the face of the wave as you head in to a bottom turn. The fins set to far from the rails also made it feel like I wasn`t manuevering off the rails. It felt heavy.

I have been riding a performance short board since I was in junior high shaped by Glen winton, SELWYN VAN WYK, Jack night, Al merrick, Maurice Cole, webber, NEV and you can never expect to make boards as good as these guy in you first shape…I was very spoilt in a way and I know what good board is. So when I made a board for my self I was so disapointed, I could never be happy with them. Sure I have friends that ride my boards and say they are good but deep down I know my self that the board is not good enough.

I guess you would be very happy when you shape your self a board that goes as good as your webber toughlite.

So back to your subject bro, YOU went from 62 -18" to a 61 19 1/2…That is a fat mans board, I dont know how much you weigh but 19 1/2 width are usually for an old guy or a STUBBIE surfboard which should be ridden 2-4inch shorter than you normal board. so for me Im 64 kg and for a small wave board I ride 55 -19 1/4 - 2 3/16 in Quads. For performace I ride 59 - 18 1/4 - 2 - 3/16 and this set up will be for anything between 2ft to 6ft…

Sorry for the long post. Good luck

Turn it into a quad.. i made a board for myself that sucked as a thruster but flew as a quad... This would be the easiest and quickest alteration to your board....

either way, congrats on getting rid of that Webber!!!

Thanks again KMD,  I will try and buy a protractor and ruler today, and give some real angle figures,  It really does feel like the fins are doing something strange, I tend to surf off the fins quite a lot.  I’m going to try and off load it asap possibly today but i want to take as many measurements before I get rid so hopefully I can figure out some reasons.

 

Just managed to do some rough measurements on my mates 5 6 firewire and the line does not cross the stringer and infact stays much more on the same side of the board at the nose than my 6 1, so this would suggest that the toe of my 6 1 is fairly normal?   i guess I will have to get a protractor to measure the exact angles.

 

P.s there doesnt seem to be any abnormalities of the fins being too far away, exactly the same distance as my 6 6  around an inch and a quarter? Again exact measurements still to come.

Ok first off thanks for the vid of you surfing..that really helps a lot in your board design and what you should be surfing...or suggesting

6'1" fins should be at 3.5 & 11.4

6'5" fins should be at 3.75 & 12

You my friend are a heavy back foot, to the point of making the board drag. when you turn you are pushing the tail deep, but never letting the wide point of the board "run" on the wave face.  When you are on the wave face you are still dragging the tail.   So this in itself will make the board seem slow and sluggish. Ever wonder how guys generate so much speed without loosing it in a turn etc.  You need to weight and unweight..like in skiing when you come into and out of a turn....let the board run when you come out of a turn, get light footed....then when you dig into a turn..bury that bi-och.

If you have a rockery board with the fins pointed at the nose, this will increase the drag, and slow the board.  Maybe you should try a board that has rocker, but he fins are more straight. Shoot for something like 2-3 inches off the nose, or about 1/8 to 3/16 toe, but don't go down the 1/4 toe route. This way you will turn the board more from the rocker line and not so much the last 1/4 of the board. Now you will be turning from the last 1/3 or so. This way you can surf the rockerline and project more out of your turns and gain speed instead of loosing speed.

A quad set up would help this because the fin cluster is moved to a more forward position and allows you to ride the board from a more forward position.  But you will loose the pivot feel of the thruster.  This would be a good thing in your instance.  Also if you run fins that are more upright, and not so rakey this will help loosen up the board too.

If the board sucks...get rid of it, life is too short to surf crappy boards.

just my 10 cents. it's too bad you don't live closer, you could try a few different set ups. Your waves are a lot like the san diego waves.

 

And if you really want my opinion old fat guys should be riding bigger boards that 6-1.  I have some 7'8" that will run circles around the board you are surfing on in the vid...Just my opinion.

 

Good luck and keep us posted on the board quest. Thanks for posting the vid, I wish more guys did when they are asking advice.

Bu the way...I too am heavy back foot.

 

That was my problem with board choice

no one really knows. but if i was to take a guess id say that you probably spend to much time looking in the mirror

2min32sec was pretty funny

first i was afraid of a collision, but you managed to spray him quite well!

if you open up your shoulders towards lip more halfway bottomturn, and turn them back at the lip, you will spray even more

like resinhead says: buy a good board, ditch the bad one

why dont you just buy the same surftech, but one size bigger??

who was the shaper of the ST? contact him

this aint a design reply, sorry

wouter 

5 words for you.  Wide.  Flat.  Thick.  Concave. Quad.

Agree with Resin Head,

You bog on your turns, and loose so much speed, you almost sink.  To pick up speed, ride the top and steeper portion of the wave, and lean into your turns more.

That being said, you were doing better than most, so just a little more sensitivity on your turns.

You posted dimensions of the boards but things like tail width and concaves can make a difference.  I know the Webbers tend to have a lot of concave through the tail.

The wave seen in the video appears to be a long, fun, cruisy kind of wave.  When it gets steeper does the board seem to work better?  An inch or so of added tail width might be enough to plane easier on waves like that but you'll start getting skatey if it's bigger and steeper.

Try measuring the widths at 6", 12" and 18" up from the tail on each board.  Subtle width variations can make a difference.

Have you laid a straight edge across the bottoms?  Take a straight edge lengthwise - down the stringer and down the rail.  What's happening with the rockers? 

A single concave through the fins can add a lot of lift.  The straight edge placed rail to rail will show the concaves if any... I'd be surprised if there isn't more concave in the Webber. 

 

As I can’t find anything wrong with the fins yet maybe super soft rolled rails up front and strange bottom contours are the leading contenders?

 

 

 

the only thing wrong with any board 

is you havn’t surfed it enough

in krappy conditions.

Up to a hundred hours

you are just feeling the

shape out surf it more till you get it.

or perhaps get a station wagon

and ditch the massaratti

til you learn how to shift gears.

…ambrose…

there is a perfect board,it is the one

you broke that you were so used to.

 

Learning to ride a difficult

 board is an honorable quest.

just watched the you tube video.

dropping all the way

to the bottom is a great speed

 enhancer with this gathered speed

we will see a great deal more potential

from this obviously exemplemtary board.

perhaps foiling the fins to remove any drag

would be a first positive step

Then tune the fin template

as it seems you are riding off the fins

more than implementing the rail.

 

I wouls recomend an eleven foot single fin

and taking off deeper and making

a deep carving bottom turn your initial turn.

 

the temptation to dominating a small thruster

is the most common impedence

to a well rounded surfing repetoire.

Learn to glide ,less is more…

…ambrose…

thinking is good 

feeling is great.

I watched the video, and the problem is with his style of surfing, he has a heavy approach, and just watching him turn - he bogs.  So many times people blame the board for their own lack of surfing prowess, and I think this is one of those times.  If anything the board is helping him, and not hurting him.  He probably thought he was ripping until he saw the video.  No you will never surf like Tom, or Kelly, but neither will most everyone on this planet, including the ghettorat.

…fellas, you are in a mistake, the clip shows the 6 6 board, not the problematic one…

 

-yes, the wave approach in the clip is not the better, but possible because the 6 6 is too big, so too much foam in a “projection outline” board; hence, the back foot so forward and the limitation on the moves.

My experience with the mid sized shortboards is kind of frustrating too, so I prefer to use smaller boards, have a take off a bit more difficult but when you are riding, you are free of these problems.

 

-regarding your 6 1, first, when some one find a board that works, should be start from that board, go to a trusted shaper and get a similar or enhanced one.

Work with those principles conduct to a satisfactory new board.

 

-You do not provide us with enough info about that 6 1 to evaluate it the right way

so, it s more like guessing.

 

look at any ol surf movie

whatever the kid has 

it’s better than anything

dale the goon had to ride in 1969.

just surf the board a lot.

and take the whole drop.

point break surfers

get hung up on going

down the line and never

learn set-up and curl placement.

my life is in mistake.

…ambrose…

empty the mind of confusing ‘facts’

pursue the now and get way down to the 

zen of the moment knowing isnt thinking.