After watching a few topics this year, you can see that some of us are very passionate about the materials we use… mainly because it works for you… so my question is: what would make you change from the materials that you like to use?
Eg: what would make a guy who uses PU foam and poly resin change to EPS and Epoxy? or vise versa… or our compsand guys go back to “traditional” (probably not the right term) sufboard making?
Just a hunch but it might be that after Clark Foam shut down some of us decided we weren't going to get caught with our pants down again. I live in an area that until recently seemed like a wasteland when it came to board building supplies and was exploring EPS/Epoxy just prior to the Clark shut down.
I was mainly inspired by guys like Michael Jones right here on Swaylocks. The concept of board building with run of the mill hardware store/hobby shop supplies just sounded intriguing. That was especially true after I felt how light and strong Mr J's board was. Very early on he was putting together some amazing stuff... even before Bert Burger (another inspiration) posted his thread on vacuum bagging.
At this stage I have a vacuum system and heated cure box. I am experimenting with a little bit of everything I can get my hands on. My choice of materials is based on what I'm building and for whom.
Switching tried and true methods are difficult for some. I guess a leap in technology regarding less weight, strength, ease of use would help. Cost becomes a factor though. I’ll take fin systems any day compared to glassing em on.
Health issues are a factor for me, I switched back to poly resin because I became sensitized and allergic to epoxy. I built a boat using System 3 Epoxy and not being dillegent with wearing gloves I developed a skin sensitization problem, I get insanely itchy, get welts and my eyes puff up, can’t go near the stuff. It really sucks cause everything is about epoxy these days. So much for going green, effers. I guess I’m going backwards tech and eco wise.
A stronger board that lasts longer for about the same weight or slightly less than PU/PE was the primary reason I started exploring EPS/Epoxy. I still do some PU/PE, though… but mostly for traditional longboards and big wave boards where I like the bit of added weight. PU/PE looks better, too, when you start getting into swirls and stuff. Performance is not an issue for me (outside of weight), as both perform superbly when using the right design.
There is a thing called market shift … changing demand. Right now the surfboard industry is less than 1/2 polyester and that number continues to decrease … Clark had 95% just 5 years ago … like 5 years ago last monday. The world largest surfboard manufacturer at that time was a 1000 a week concern and has continued to embrace polyester to this day. Today that company is 1/3rd of what they were. This is not only because of market shift but that shift is partially to blame. One of my largest accounts estimates that boards built with polyester resins will be gone in a less than 5 years. One of the largest board producers they are today 20% polyester.
If you look at the entire “board market” which includes surfboards, sailboards, kiteboards, SUP, etc., polyester almost doesn’t exist … less than 10% of that market. PU foam on the other hand remains pretty strong in surfboards and I think will for a period going forward just perhaps glassed with epoxy … this seems to be where a number of pro surfers are heading. There is also coming legislation issues which polyester will have to answer in 2013 unless the politics change. Always hard to say where it will be in a few years but the writing seems to be on the wall.
But also remember … I’m biased.
You can cling to the past or you can shape the future.........
I like to try alot of different stuff in materials and with design too, think if you only do one type of board, you are really limiting yourself and good surfboard makers are always keen to try to improve, eveolve and even innovate, plus its as fun as hell getting to test them out...
Thanks guys for your comments. I started with PU also went to EPS, then to XPS but would go back to EPS any day if water suck into dings wasn’t such an issue.
It’s funny when I first started making my own boards in epoxy, in australia you got laughed at for using something different… now its atleast “interesting Idea, but I will always be riding PU” comment and when you ask them why “it just rides better!” (maybe becuase they havent tried anything else)…
So its interesting to me what happened in the US with Clark and how many stayed on other types of blanks and didnt change back to PU
Greg - are these regulations coming into OZ or is it just a US thing?
I agree testing is the best fun, especially when a new design/material works!
…you are partially right but do not forget that the world is more than one country…
also I have been hearing these PS thing from around 25 years and still PU is the way to go.
PS is good in sandwich because of the weight
if for any reason some bring PU lighter and not softer there will not more PS in surfboards
I’m not an ‘industry guy.’ Just a hobby builder having fun in his garage. To me the bottom line is simplicity. I hand shape everything and do hand laminations. Although I enjoy other people’s boards that are more technical, I don’t want to get a vacum pump, build a rocker table, a wet out table, etc and add those layers of complexity to a very simple process. I’ll probably give eps another try because I think the foam for boards is improving and I enjoy working with epoxy resin because it wets out nicely and doesn’t smell so much. Epoxy on urethane makes a nice board. I do enjoy the simplicity of suncure polyester because I can work in almost any weather. Mike
I’m just a hack doing a half dozen boards a year for myself. I was inspired to move to EPS/epoxy/bamboo after Greg’s great thread on perimeter stringer veneer boards and by Bill’s generous thread on composite builds. For me it just seemed the right way to build boards to get a predictable outcome. Now I use vacced veneer as a stringer (to hold rocker) and I’m looking to injection moulding for the future of lamination (yes, on custom shapes). Personally I think that the experimentation with EPS/epoxy construction has led to advances in process that are very slowly permeating into the industry. But there’s still almost no epoxy laminators in my area. Still, having started 3-4 years ago on eps/epoxy construction I’m firmly wedded to it (along with attendant innovations, like pre-lam innegra (thanks Huie!) and diagonal layups (thanks Benjamin)).