I kept an eye on this thread that didnt get much input…would anyone like to give me the reason this could be? … as there are normaly at least 5 experts on every subject raised at this BB…although it surprises me how many you are into FP or not…and will vocalise your opinions freely…but bring in a subject that has a certain bell tolling structure about it, talk about research and upgrading and it is avoided like a virus…specially when you know its right! Dont talk about your problems and dont find a design that could solve them…The Penguins just around the corner can you see it ? Preshaped blanks perfectly blown in dual density foams in any shape you like ready to vacume bag in your own lounge room… Quote:"The problems I see with the surfboard industry are very complex. When compared with other industries, it’s really laughable. Solomon is a good example. They are a huge technical company with lots of “engineers” staffed. Once more companies like them or cobra for example get more involved with this industry, they will blow us all away. Bill Bahne has been warning people about china for years. “were gonna have to step it up” he said. Problem is, there is really no profit to be made from surfboards. I see people doing merricks with 10 year old equipment. With the stipulations now being put on performance, durability, and craftsmanship of surfboards, it’s just gonna get worse. In other industries like snowboarding, motorcycles, or any thing that uses a “vehicle” of some sort, you will usually find the cost to be many times the cost of the custom surfboard.And they are not even “custom” You will also find some kind of “profit margin”, therefore allowing R&D, upgrades, and possibly even an “engineer” looking at how to make it better. In california at least, it’s getting progressively harder to make ANY profit these days. The retail shops seem to be doing OK though. Most glassers I know (lots), are operating at a loss. How can they upgrade or push technology? Can’t put the cart in front of the horse! I think the solomons will retail for about a grand. They’d have to if they will ever get better. ":Unquote http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Until you can get a custom board made from an Pop-out company in 4 weeks or less there will always be a demand for custom board builders in the USA. Or a custom board made in China in 4 weeks or less, ha hahha. It aint never gonna happen because a popout board is just that, a popout, its just like all the other pop outs, nothing from these guys is custom tailored to the customer. All the board builders in Cali are opperating at a loss?? thats a funny one too. If they are loosing money why are they still doing it? You can sit at home and do nothing and loose money, dont kid yourself there is plenty of money to be made building boards if its done right. Go down to Tresles, one of the most crowded spots in Ca. and see how many Surftechs-Boardworks china boards are out in the water, I was there recently and saw none, 0. You can hardly even find them in the shops, nobody wants them. The popout is selling more on the eastcoast but sales are slipping and people are going back to real surfboards. The popout surfboard is going to go the same way the sailboards went, its just a fad and will die a slow death. These big popout companys have to produce tons of boards to support the large factories and they just arent going to be able to sell the volume over the long haul. Ive been making a very good living building boards over the last 20+ years and plan on doing so for more to come. On a side note Backyard Boards recently started getting their boards made in China, guess what, they got totally laughed out of the Fla expo because they were stupid enough to think they could sell them made in China. When asked how long it would take to get a custom board made, well uh we can get someone to make it in cali, dont know how long it will take though, ha ha ahaha, too funny. How long do you think Backyard Boards is going to be in Business?
would anyone like to give me the reason this could be? … ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Without question, the same reason as yesterday, you’re a dickhead.
Well stated MKIA, I own a small board company in southern California and we definitely did not operate at a loss as evidenced by the fat tax return checks everyone got. We’re busier than ever, and you’re right, I don’t see core surfers getting anything but custom boards. Maybe the popouts are for the entry-level market; which doesn’t interest builders of high-performance custom equipment anyways. Those entry-level riders will eventually want to try a custom board from a local builder; then they’re hooked. Pretty straightforward with no conspiracies…
Research and upgrading. As far as I know, every time a boardmaker goes surfing or watches other surfers he is doing research, and every time he makes himself, or someone else, a board, he is upgrading. Not a new or unique concept.
SO you are saying that…you are not going broke… But youre not saying anything about the aspect of the custom boards effect on the enviroment…the cost and the durability…how many custom boards are glassed double 6oz for deck and single for bottom…I know I can have moulds built to any complex shape…conventional designs are relying on variable sizing for tuned performance…FP can be built in 3 sizes to suit 2’ slop to 10’ only three moulds needed to accommodate the spectrum…My contact has realised that the pop out board is still needing some refinement in construction but is not impossible to produce a light weight PET style case over a dense light foam…boards you can offer deposit for when they are wasted…AND guys they wont have “made in china” they will have “made in Australia”… All of this is purely conjecture of course… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Gw by upgrading you mean a steady advancement of the limits of surfboard performance? or particularly just a specialist point of veiw…changing boards for different waves and different sized surfers? I am led to belive that the fastest boards built 30 years ago are still the fastest boards you can build now? although they are specialist boards… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html 
Yes T.E. used up surfboards, wheather they are popouts or custom boards end up in landfills just like all the other trash you throw away on a daily basis. I would have to say surfboards are a very tiny percentage of the total garbage we throw away in a year. Every time I have to go to the dump I have yet to see a surfboard, tons of other stuff though. Its amazing the amount of other plastic stuff that gets tossed everyday, just look in your garbage at all the stuff that goes to the local landfill, I dont here you saying anything about that stuff. Next, the way I glass my boards is very strong, they last several seasons when ridden regularly. I have seen some 10+ year old boards of mine still around. Pretty good strength and quality eh? So yes, im not going broke, far from it. If you think 3 different sized boards for all conditions is custom, you are really dreaming. This of course, is the truth.
Why ply a custom shape when three do the job for all conditions…How many boards do you think are being produced WW? …I commend that you are glassing the boards to a high standard but in all honesty this makes the board heavier and more expensive…Much of land fill is due to lack of regulation most of it can be recycled and I even heard of making fuel for cars out if it…makes sense most of it came from oil… Im looking into alternatives… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
If you are looking into alternatives then stop wasting time on this BB. Then go and make your boards out of something else than PE/PS…make them hollow, make them paper honeycomb with wood veneer deck and bottom… The only thing that you have left then is Epoxy…where Epoxy is less a problem than Polyester. Guess why there is no alternative to wooden Skateboards…there is only one company that builts performance boards out of wood/composite material…thats LIB-Tec who also happen to produce Snowboads. But they can only press 3 at a time opposed to 10 with conventional wood construction… and they also loose pop and break eventually. Chinese Skateboards are of inferior quality… There is too little Tech involved in surfboard construction that it would make them significantly cheaper to produce in high volume… + surfers demand individual boards. YOU have to adapt to the market… And you still have to show that your design is worth extra money. If it is then I am sure some people would want to ride one or already ride one. Are you now trying to produce FP popouts?
if the board pop outs industry will based in california and the pro ones (surfers, builders)will use that or are involved, these boards will accepted…
Give me a figure of how many boards are consumed and how many are hand shaped glassed by knowledgeable long term industry pro shaper/glassers?..The picture I get is that there is a demand for surfcraft and of high quality made by hand…how do you value add to a product that is replicable by anybody a product that is veritably the same where ever you go …at many levels of cost to produce…ie cheap and cheaper…I concluded once from observing the dawn patrol(hard core) who are living breathing surfing…stems out as about 5% of the surfing population and these guys know boards…they know where and how much to pay…and their boards last longer because they know which ones to buy and they know how to care for them in and out of the water. So this marginal percentage are going to replace their boards less frequently. Whereas your average sponsored Pro shortboarder well Ive seen them boast they go through 30 boards a month. Im not wasting my time…and dont waste yours by replying…I am touched by how a few of you are so concerned about how I may appear here…But really I can look after myself thanks… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
I’ve sold boards to people in Iowa, Indiana and arkansas it doesn’t make them surfers, but at least they had the fortitude to order custom.Pop outs, rack boards whatever… once they (surfers) get started and truly start SURFING they will sooner or later buy a custom board (or 2) from one of us. It doesn’t matter if they started on a popout or on pop’s old Hansen in the garage. Somewhere along that timeline they’ll realize that it’s more about the entire process and not just paddling out. This a community and it’s what this lifestyle and so called industry was founded on. Somethings have changed but we haven’t ventured that far from where it all started.The Backyard… http://www.soulsurfertv.com
I belive most people buy boards according to the brandname…old established brands would no doubt recieve more interest… This is mainly due to the numbers of surfers is still limited compared to golfers or soccer players and other popular sports…giving ease of market preferance to an established tried and true supplier…If they changed their construction techniques I dont think they would loose a thing… http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
Give it a rest mate, I’m not too sure I would trust your opinion, you seem to push your point a bit too hard. Swaylocks was a good place to come for information without too much bullshit before you started trumpeting your invention. PUT AN ADVERTISEMENT ON THE MAIN PAGE AND LET THOSE WHO HAVE THE INCLINATION GO TO YOUR SITE.
this is wonderful I feel so uplifted with each and every one of your detailed and informative postings…ambrose… finally in awe and slowly growing to understand the depth and breadth of the real topic…
T.E. , Every time you reply I become more aware how little you know about surfing (and i am not talking about Paul Cole, that is unless you are Paul Cole and that would’nt surprise me), to believe that three boards will do you for the rest of your surfing life because they are built to last and that each design is the best that you can get, shows me the ability level that you are at (beginner). Surfboards, like everything else these days as always(tatoo’s, computers, mobile phones, electric razors, cars and the rest) are the best that you can get until you get tired of it (mans animalistic in-built system against monogamy)The beauty of the custom board is that they are all different , and even if you find the best board that you have ever riden, it does’nt take long before you are starting to wonder if there is something better. Thats the life and fun of being a shaper and a surfer, being able to ride your own fantasies and to give the customer the feeling of continuous inividuality (something that should never be lost), but even if people wonder from the pack of todays tried and tested surfboard designs and try one of your unconfirmed advancements, there is one thing certain and that is that the grass is always greener no matter how good a paddock you come from. Custom orders will never die but people like yourself come and go (longevity, depending on how many suckers per outlay or suckers per investment) KR Thats it from me FP, no more comments, no more reading your dribble. FP…WHO …ohh OK…one last comment If you reply that I will be hearing of the FP you will be wrong because I do not read or am I influenced by magazines or surf movies or contests for my designs(the only avenues that you have for finding suckers of the same begginer mentality like yourself). I will follow my own theories for my own surfing but unlike yourself never claim that I have all the answers, only to hope that my ability and experience is enough to keep making the living that I have for the last 20+ years.
Denial is the most predictable human responce… One board to rule them all ! http://www.geocities.com/wunderboyi/ninetysixpercent.html
kR well said! http://www.soulsurfertv.com
One board would be like oh, just drinking gatorade for the rest of your life. Oh sure it would work, but it would suck. An then you would not like drinking fluids and you would become cronically dehydrated…more sucking. Same way. if a man had just one board, eventually you’d gett burned out and not surf as much, and then eventually less and less. And then you might take up boggie boarding for something different. And not for the sake of shore break barrels. So buy and fp and you’ll stop surfing and take up dragging your dick in 3 foot sloppy beachbreak. Just a bit of conjecture.