I think overall volume is a starting point because we do paddle these boards, but surface area and rocker are bigger factors for actually paddling. I do know that if I hit my target volume for a given rider - based on their preference - then it will feel comfortable to them so long as I don’t come up with some crazy combination of dimensions.
With that said, I know many shapers don’t use the CAD software so they have to rely on their judgement. Obviously that works, too, to the extent they have that experience. But I’ve seen lots of examples of customs that didn’t meet the expectations of their customers, and that starts out with a disconnect between what the customer thinks they’re getting vs what the shaper thinks the customer wants.
I think it pays to reduce/eliminate as many uncommunicated specs as possible. Surfing is mental so perceptions and comfort levels count.
thanx foam e-z for getting the conversation started. i think there are a lot of popular misconceptions about volume, which are useful for keeping the masses from straying too far off the corporate dictated path to conformity. Individuality and creative tinkering just throw the whole mass-production paradigm out of wack! Better to have a pop up menu that tells you the “proper” volume for your weight group. Useful too might be a yellow line on the wetsuit indicating optimum water level in a sitting position.
To me Volume is a machine shape word introduced because it could be. Nothing wrong with that but I and I reckon all long time hand shapers, think in thickness, foil and foam distribution stringer to rail (thick or thin rails basically). You don’t really need more than that.
Surfboards have always had volume. It has always been present, even in skimboards and alaias.
It is an easy metric to calculate if your core has consistent density and no stringer. (Coil has been including volume on their boards for at least a decade. Just saying.) Now machine shaping has made volume calculation accessible to those who were otherwise unable, uninterested, or unwilling to figure out how much space their boards displaced. And now customers are expressing more interest in this nuance of the shaping process.
Volume is a metric of the final product, but it’s a metric nonetheless and as such should always be considered in concert with the other usual measurements, not as some stand-alone magic quantity. If it’s uninteresting to you, then don’t waste your time worrying about it. Some people like lots of information; some don’t care to think about the world around them. One’s not necessarily better or worse than the other. But I don’t think it’s right to dismiss others for attempting to understand the nuances of the shaping process.
I meant for a person handshaping without access to computerized assistance.
It’s quite difficult to perform an accurate volume calculation on a hand-shaped PU blank (which has different density throughout) with a wood stringer.
On the other hand, it’s quite simple to calculate the volume on stringerless EPS (assuming one knows the true density of the foam to start with.)
If it’s not clear what I mean, I can go through a sample calculation.
Hey Huck, I gotta buzz out so I’ll follow up more later.
My point wasn’t that density affects volume, but rather that it influences a home-builder’s ability to calculate the volume of his shaped blank. If you know the exact density of your core material, then by simply weighing the shaped board you can easily determine what the volume is (easily done with stringerless EPS, which is pretty consistent throughout). But stick a piece of wood in the middle of a core which itself has an uneven density and the home builder can only roughly estimate his volume.
On the other hand, the CAD programs spit out volume calcs automatically, so it’s easy for a …lost or whoever to include volumes with their other listed dimensions. It’s useful info to someone who’s trying to understand the difference between two boards which could otherwise have the exact same dimensions.
It has just been my personal observation - and I may be mis-reading this - but the guys who totally dismiss volume measurements as irrelevent fall into basically three camps:
hobbyists who are just having fun and don’t want to get too sciency (nothing wrong with that),
experienced shapers who have developed an intuition for what works within a given shape and so don’t feel the need for more numbers to keep track of (nothing wrong with that either), and
those who don’t have any idea what to do with this information.
It’s the third group that kinda bugs me. Hope I haven’t derailed this thread. I agree with the original post as well as your observation that volume is a result of the shaping process. But I do think that it’s useful data.
If you know the density of your EPS you can weigh the blank at the end of shaping and if you have a weight per m cubed or pounds per cubic foot you could work backwards to determine volume, cant be done with PU blanks ad the density is different depending on distance from the skin of the blank. and the stringer would be a different volume to the foam.
I dont use the volume metric (handshape, nose, tail, widepoint measurements and thickness at center, rocker at each end. the rest done by eye) but I see how a volume measurement can be useful for surfers trying to ride as small a board as possible for performance. or to find a familiar amount of float on a different design. or maybe even as a headcheck for a board for serious waves.
by the way, bouyancy force = the density of WATER x the volume of the water displaced and the volume of the water displaced = the volume of your surfboard under the water. for small high performance surfboards, ALL of the surfboard is under water while paddling. for larger surfboards where the whole board is not underwater, other features have a larger effect on paddle speed. and yes a board with less voume can catch waves easier than a board with more volume depending on the wave type and the design aspects of the boards.
I only shape by hand. I started off making my own templates, and I still have them all. But these days I only design in CAD. So while I don’t measure the volume of what I end up with I do shape to my design - that’s how I know more/less where my volumes are.
CAD allows me to tweak the dimensions to yield the volume I’m shooting for. CAD also enables me to map someone else’s favorite board for volume so that I can incorporate that number into my design for them. I haven’t had a complaint about too big or too small for years now, so this approach works for me.
I supppose if I was a professional and had thousands of boards under me then my eye might be sufficiently developed that I could size a customer up and instinctively intuit exactly what dimensions I should shape for them. But I’m a garage hack and I’ll never do that many boards or develop my skill to that level; hence the utility TO ME to use the more mechanical and calculated approach to board design.
There’s another camp newschool …those that think an average surfer can instantly adjust to a new board with a different volume , effortlessly , without even noticing the difference. I’ve noticed that the media driven folly of “ultra-light” surfboards has disappeared in recent times , and commonsense has prevailed . Volume only has relevance , in conjunction with the sum of all parts…on it’s own it is virtually irrelevant ( within a sensible range of course)…however , the marketing gurus still try to convince the surfboard buying public that they are all potential world champions , and their success hinges of a few litres of foam.
Huck, if I tell you a board is 6’0", 12.0" x 19.0" x 14.5" x 2.4" thick, what’s the volume?
Well, that’s not enough information. Depends on how it’s foiled both lengthwise as well as laterally. It could be bladed out with thin rails and stepped foil like you see in Coil’s boards, or it could be flat decked, thick-railed, with a beak-nose. The two boards have the same listed dimensions, but they’ll have wildly different volumes and suit different types of surfers. So, having the extra data point for comparison can help the consumer differentiate between the two.
And all volume tells you is that one board has more foam than the other. One can’t look at the two boards and see that?.. Even with the same dimensions and the same volume it doesn’t tell you where the volume is.
Volume is marketed like pant sizes. Your a 28, this guys a 34, the next guys a 36. Its a way to stick people into categories and tell them what they need to ride. It’s a way for Johnny surf shop to sell off the rack boards to people who are ill informed (or to have the ill informed selling boards). All they gotta do is look at the sizing chart. Listen to your average joe talk about it. “Dude your board doesn’t work?.. Bro, you need more volume”
This makes me laugh, cause I’ve had almost that exact conversation with a surf shop employee. I just wanteed him to shut up and let me look at the boards in peace. Nonetheless, I like data.
My name is newschoolblue, and I’m an information junkie.