I read on here that Additive F was causing some yellowing. We ran tests before we ever marketed this product and got no results like that so we decided to retest just to make sure. In the retest we got results consistant with our original results … no yellowing caused by the additive F. We tested this with all our different resins and all of the different hardeners as well. Just wanted to clarify this. Thanks.
Greg,
What would cause causing yellowing in one board over another? I ask this because I have laminated 2 boards simultaniously with RR. Both boards were from the same blank mfgr, both DAP 'd the same way, both boards laminated with the same glassing schedule.
Board 1 stayed perfect white, kept in a board bag when not surfed. Board 2 yellowing around rail laps on top, also kept in board bag.
I know there are a bunch of variables, but what is the cause of yellowing?
-Jay
Too much hardner does cause this as well as older oxidised hardner. Does not take much to over hardner, but better too much than too little, rule No.1.
Boardbumps
I had this same yellowing problem on a batch of boards (along the lap line). The yellowing increased with time even though boards were not left in sun. I use the
aluzine fast epoxy from fiberglass Hawaii. In that batch I didn’t put any additive F/surfacing agent in the laminate mix (I had read that it was not necessary and would decrease the bond with the filler coat). Usually I would put a small amount in the laminate mix. Now I put it in both laminate and filler coat mixes and have not had any yellowing. By the way I have never had any bonding issues
either.
Possibly the yellowing is due to poor mixing of addative F into the resin or just too much overall?
Yellowing over the lap line for your situation is proibably due to this.
Theory 1: You used a new yellow squeegie. Didn’t adequately wipe off the yellow dye with etoh or a resin wash and a manly wipe. When you wrapped your rails, pressing hard with your yellow dye filled squeegie, the first board wiped off the excess dye on the rails. By bord number two the squeegie was adequately wiped off on board 1 and the rails look fine on board 2.
Theory 2. Cheap sand paper taking down your lap and improper prep for deck lam.
I give 99% probability for theory #1
I can’t speak to FH’s resin or their version of our invention, Additive F. Our Additive F enhances bond between layers so we use it in laminates to get better bonding for hot coats. In some places in this world it’s nearly impossible to make boards without Add F because of high humidities and the delamination of hot coats from laminates. BTW, HI isn’t one of those places, neither is CA … FL is. But I still use Add F in my laminates because of other attributes, i.e. better wet out, better gassing release, smoother laminates, provides better sanding for laps and presands before hot coats, etc. It just makes building boards so much easier. Other companies claim to have a version which they don’t want you to use … doesn’t sound like they have the stuff right. Other companies claim they have resin that doesn’t need add f. IMHO BS. I built boards for 20 years without it … yes it can be done. But I wouldn’t do it ever again now that I have the stuff … I work hard enough.
There are two reasons for yellowing other than excessive UV. Bad mixing and heat. My guess is one board was in a bag that drew more heat than the other. But RR Additive F does not cause yellowing at all, no matter how much you put in, it can’t. There’s nothing in there that would cause it to.
Yellow laps can also be from the fabric. There are cloth companies making fiberglass that yellows. These are mostly the cheap products from Asia. We’ve been getting the blame for some of this lap yellowing and it’s not us. The other issue here is that over the past five years or so there’s been a push (started by Biolas) to make boards whiter and brighter. In following this trend we’ve painted ourselves into a corner. Very little color now looks dingy so any discoloration, in the cloth, in the resin, in the blank, shows bad. The resin oftentimes gets the blame and it’s not always us. We’re getting close to the point when boards won’t be able to be clear anymore and this will damage the way we build. If every board board had to be sprayed with a urethane, half the business’ would be gone.
I agree with what you say but my understanding is the builder had two boards on the racks , cloth off the same roll and the same bucket of epoxy.
I agree the best fiberglass cloth is made in texas, but even usa manufactures of cloth get material from south korea and other parts of asia. I have use RR and fgh epoxy from the 90s to today. Even with my tight weave cloth from s. korea, I never see yellowing period from the current epoxies mentioned. The yellowing factor is human error in all cases in my experience and the products are just fine.
Since clark closed and eps/xps and epoxy has taken off, I would have to say that the number one rookie mistake for yellow on the logo lams or rails of white boards is not washing the yellow dye off the squeegie.
I did have a problem last week with my Additive F. We have about 2 gallons in stock, and of that stock 2 of 5 pint cans leaked from the bottom of the can. The F ate through a 1/4" heavy duty industrial strength plastic “chemical resistant” drawer and the pint cans fell to the next storage bin. The hole was the about 8" x 8" irregular round pattern. I poured all the pints into new metal gallon paint cans. The quart cans seemed fine. I didn’t realize xylene ate through plastic like that.
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Since clark closed and eps/xps and epoxy has taken off, I would have to say that the number one rookie mistake for yellow on the logo lams or rails of white boards is not washing the yellow dye off the squeegie.
In the case mentioned above, the builder/owner said the yellowing occurred over time. Seems that if the squeegee was coming off on the cloth during the glassing process, the laps would yellowed right then.
I’ve never seen any professional laminator use a yellow plastic squeegee in any glass shop. They all use Thalco Rubber Squeegees which aren’t yellow.
2 boards made side by side, same time, one big, one small.
And this rookie uses plastic Bondo spreaders for Epoxy, made by bondo even. There pink, pink panther pink.
Thanks for all the input guys. As i see it still unanswered phenom. Even though I am a rookie, I take the most care of measuring and cleaning my boards laminations. I even use real plastic measuring cups that have been mixed on a digital scale. Real hightech stuff here, I’m talking NASA stuff.
I like the idea of maybe not mixing throughly? maybe the board that got the top shot got too hot, maybe the board on the bottom got to cold of a batch. Maybe I forgot to mix, maybe i over mixed…but none the less the stuff turned yellow, and bummed out a customer. so why yellow if nothing is supposed to turn yellow?
Me neither with PE resin. Which thread were you reading this problem came from a professional laminator? I am talking about all the ones learning the trade, taking shortcuts, using the living room for a glassing room. No rookie has ever asked you advice before? When I sell some one epoxy and they come a complaining I have to ABE( access blame elsewhere) or I owe a refund. Since epoxy took off I have had no less than 20 of these complaints personally which I can all trace back to the yellow squeegee rack at FGH or home depot. It only happens once per squeegee.
BTW the thalco’s are great when you can slop on the PE resin like their is no tomorrow. With epoxy the other rookie mistake is to skimp on the resin and the need for a cut/sanded softened thalco works better, cuz they dink around trying not to waste one drop of the more expensive epoxy. I have seen cheap paint brushes used and hairs in the laminate too. The bottom line is personal preference is just that. I can only speak from my 2 decades plus experience with working with epoxy. If it was fresh FGH or RR resin it was user error.
this situation would be an automatic new board for the customer. I think the wrong question is being asked. “quality control and customer refund update” would be the better name for the thread.
When’s the cash refund or new board coming? Playing surfboard store can have it’s downside too! Your reputation is on the line now. Will you do the right thing or not? Pointing the finger at the foam, epoxy or glass won’t make it go away. You are responsible! Make it right.
Has anyone already asked about gloves? I have had latex gloves start to dissolve and leave yellowish residue. That was with polyester resin… Styrene being the culprit, I suspect. Might Xylene (additive F component) have a similar effect?
I just did. Full refund. And I gave the guy 50% off of the next 2 boards.
And my marketing say that my 9’4" Longboard is a real 9’4" Long board.
I wish I new as much about business & surfboards as you, then I could move out of this trailer and make some real money.
I know what you guys are up to a Surftech…you are overcharging for the 9’0", then you pocket the .65 cents on every over charged board. Next thing your flying around in a real jet airplane.
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I just did. Full refund. And I gave the guy 50% off of the next 2 boards.
What, no lifetime supply of wax, leashes, rash guards and traction pads??? C’mon man, pony up! (insert sarcastic wit, smiley face here)
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Quote:I just did. Full refund. And I gave the guy 50% off of the next 2 boards.
What, no lifetime supply of wax, leashes, rash guards and traction pads??? C’mon man, pony up! (insert sarcastic wit, smiley face here)
OK…If you order before midnight tonight, everybody that orders one of my boards gets A FREE PONY!!
That’s right, A FREE PONY!!
But wait, that’s not all. If you dial this number before tomorrow I’ll throw in a free 4" section of Joel Tudor Surftec surfboard. WOW now that’s a deal. Dial 1-800-BIG-PONY
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Quote:Quote:I just did. Full refund. And I gave the guy 50% off of the next 2 boards.
What, no lifetime supply of wax, leashes, rash guards and traction pads??? C’mon man, pony up! (insert sarcastic wit, smiley face here)
OK…If you order before midnight tonight, everybody that orders one of my boards gets A FREE PONY!!
That’s right, A FREE PONY!!
But wait, that’s not all. If you dial this number before tomorrow I’ll throw in a free 4" section of Joel Tudor Surftec surfboard. WOW now that’s a deal. Dial 1-800-BIG-PONY
Do you take Diner’s Club?
Ok, ok…try this. Take a Sharpie and carefully outline the yellowed area. Art. Tell the dude you usually charge extra for Art but this time, it’s on the house.