it does look nice though
not bagging it or anything.
well done
i guess its just not practical for me
Hi Boardcrazy -
That looks like a very cool way to laminate both sides in one hit. I’m not familiar with kiteboard specs… are the rails typically overlapped?
I guess for surfboards you could wrap the rail overlap when doing the deck before placing it on the table with the saturated bottom glass in place. Maybe wrap the bottom glass up and over the rail before bagging?
Thanks for yet another way to skin the cat!
John Thanks for the reply. My current method does not wrap the rails, it laminates a top and bottom skin over a hard plastic rail which is attached to the core. This give me a fast build time and a hard as nails rail. Regarding rail wrapping vs not rail wrapping, I have done both now. I previously wrapped the rails by doing the bottom skin first in one process then doing the top in another trip to the table. To wrap the rail using the rocker table is slightly different to how I described it above but it is essently very simular. This is an interesting topic and one that can cause a great deal of discussion by kiteboard builders. There are three main types of rail we use, 1-Wrapped, 2-flashed, 3-flashed over a hard plastic rail. I think the wrapped rail give a stronger board but also increases the stiffness, which is not always what we want in a kiteboard. The flashed rail, I think is the weakest as the bond is only 1 or 2mm wide. My favorite and my current method is the hard plastic rail, in my latest board I used PU casting resin to form the rail. Below is a picture of my core using the wrapped rail method, after it has had the bottom skin vaced on. 
Si that photo sure does make the board look a lot bigger than it really is. Looking forward to riding it soon.
hey BC would love to see the pic but you got a smaller one?
whatz that like 1MB?
geez man im on a dialup over here…your killing me
Mee i’ve resized it for you, i’m sure simon won’t mind.
Kitesurfer,
I dont mind, it just happened to be on my server that way and I can not change or upload naything from here at work.
I’m really intrigued with this method.
Sooo… I’m thinking that if you’re doing an overlap from the deckside, you’d use some sort of elevated recessed platform or does the overlap go directly against the rocker table?
I have an inquiry out re: silicone sheet vacuuming over a rocker table and so far, that’s the kind of thing being discussed.
Thanks!
I agree. This thread is getting really interesting, even though I feel I’m unlikley to build a rocker table.
Has anyone here glassed a board without any laps at all, just cut glass, and then run a band of glass tape around the rail line? How would that affect flex?
Would you let the deck & bottom glass touch each other or leave a gap? Could you tune flex by having them touch or even lap in some places & leave gaps in others? 2 layers of tape to reproduce the coverage of regluar laps, or just one for max. flex & lightest weight? What would the difference be between 2" tape & 4" tape?
Hmmmmm.
na benny , your way off the track now …
i think youve found the freeway …
regards
BERT
I wasn’t sure that the fiberglass tape alone would be impact resistant enough to attatch the 2 skins to the rails. I guess it is. This photo fills in a lot of blanks that have been missing. It really is a patchwork quilt of glass!
John
This is how I do rail wrapping.
Firstly if I am going to wrap the rails I would not try to push/force the concave in as per the previous technique, I would hand shape the concave in bottom of the core first. The first pic of the rocker table did not have a mould surface on it because I was using the wrapped rail technique.
So here we go.
Prepare the vac bag.
1 – using thick polythene tubing, really cheap from packaging companies and seal one end using bagging tape and a little silicone sealer in the corners to ensure a good seal.
2 – lay the bag out on a spare table.
The Laminating Process.
1 – cut and hand shape the flat core, create the rail profile and thin out the tips.
2 – Hand shape the concave into the bottom.
3 – Lay the core onto a glassing stand and wet out the bottom laminate onto the core.
4 – wet out the top of the rails and lap the laminate under.
5 – Cut and Place a large oversize piece of peel ply onto the laminate and wrap.
6 – turn the core over carefully.
7 – Pull the peel ply from each side to ensure it is tight and any creases are away for the laminate. Pull the peel ply tight and Fix into the un-laminated core using a stapler
8 – flip the whole thing over again and add the release film and breather.
Take the core and slide it carefully into the pre-prepaired bag.
9 – Seal the open end of the bag and attach the vac hose.
10 – suck a little air out and ensure every thing is smooth.
11 – Take the board over to the table and place it on top.
11.5 – Increase the vacuum to the required setting.
12 – Gat 4 or 6 lengths of 4x2 wood and cut then to length. Approx the width of the rocker table.
13 - place these 4x2s across the top of the bag at regular intervals.
14 – using Luggage straps go over and under the table and on top of the 4x2.
15 – Now start tightening the straps, pulling the bagged board down onto the rocker table and thus taking the shape the desired rocker.
16 – wait ages for it to cure.
The top laminate is basically the same sequence as 1 – 16 above.
So what you are basicly saying and showing is that it is much faster to cut your glass for fin lay ups from a narrow roll of glass tape?
i don’t think that the photo has anything to do with fin layups…
basically he is showing that he has these strange rolls of glass that you would never find in a normal glass shop… i am sure that minds will be bending and a few won’t be getting much sleep…
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i don't think that the photo has anything to do with fin layups...basically he is showing that he has these strange rolls of glass that you would never find in a normal glass shop… i am sure that minds will be bending and a few won’t be getting much sleep…
I feel like a bingo moment just went by. The idea of separate glass & rail glass tape had occurred to me for the last 2 or 3 boards. Independent skins, almost, in shear like Bert’s old example of a deck of cards sliding on each other.
Sandwiches are strong like panels; rail tape over solid wood is flexible & strong like a reinforced bow. The messages are, ‘Don’t mix the panels & the bows’, or, in other words, ‘Connect components but don’t mash & merge them together so much that they take on each others’ characteristics which also decreases the action of their own functions.’
This is the reason for the skins ending where the solid rails begin. Its not because the skins can’t make the turn. Of course they can, with heat & vacuum. Its because if you turn the panels around the rail, the rail gets too stiff. And if you use too much solid wood beyond the rail, the board gets too heavy. Panels & bows. Connected, but separate. No real compound curves with sandwich skins. Deck & bottom. Solid rails for spring, not even necessarily for shaping. ok ok ok ok ok ok wow. Flat panels are strong. Bent wood is springy. Don’t mix. Got it. Wow can you tell I’m a bit excited?
OK. Yer right about minds spinning. Better go buy some 2 oz tape. 2" & 4" oughta do it for now… 
Its funny how one simple picture can fill in so many questions. I will point out the the skin does wrap the rail on the top and on the bottom it doesn’t (at least on Bert’s boards). While I was out surfing it occured to me that you could probably make both skins at the same time by going glass-balsa-glass-release material-glass-balsa-glass. What do you think would be the best way to cut the skins. I wonder if you could use your router with a bearing and run it along your template?
so I’m thinking to myself…
what’s up with all the red rails?
was this a package order or is this some type of construction technique?
Also why are the fins being put on AFTER the gloss coat?
Don’t you have to sand all that stuff down?
A rocker table like this or with offcuts seems the way to go with mallable EPS.
Even better yet how about a full scale press mold like how they make these one man canoes here…
Halun doing it as well as Hydroepic
Bert and the Kiteboarder’s doing a bit of molding too with these contour maps to press in the bottom.
Look at some of Gary Young’s shop photo’s in that Groundswell pdf… Looks like there’s some press molding going on there too…
I think the red on the rails is protective tape.
woah…this is getting exciting. I bet that alot of people that skipped this thread are missing out.
another thing that bert shows in his pic is also how clean he can keep his shop.
Rio
oh btw aussie friends, I heard on npr today that the australian government banned the use of the term ‘mate’ by the national guards when greeting people…
…it was overturned 24 hrs later. that’s awesome.
Quote:
I think the red on the rails is protective tape.
Hmm, It would seem that the way that the tape follows where the edge would be in the tail, and the way it has been put on prior to the fins being glassed on- that it is masking a filler coat of resin, aka a “hotcoat” in polyester shops. -Carl