Hi I’ve just joined - I’m planning on working with my brother and making an Alaia each. He’s been surfing for a while but I have never surfed before (just freediving etc).
We’re in the UK (Channel Islands) so it’s quite hard to get hold of Paulownia. We’ve opted for Western Red Cedar (WRC) instead.
So far just been sorting out the wood but I had some questions about construction…
Does grain orientation play a part in the deck construction ?
I was thinking that strips of quarter sawn WRC laminated together so that the grain ran vertically would be better than using plain sawn timber. I think that this would give a stronger deck but from the limited knowledge I have I was wondering if the design of the Alaia (no rocker) meant that it was actually a design requirement to have a flexing deck (ie quarter sawn would be too stiff and the board wouldn’t work). Any thoughts ?
I have Titebond 3 / Gorilla / West System slow cure and was wondering which glue would be better for a board that will probably end up being oiled.
Have any of you played around with different joining techniques. For example rather than a plain butt join I was thinking about either a spline joint (maybe biscuits?) or some tongued joint to increase strength.
Both myself and my brother are about 6’2" and probably at least 14 stone (90kg ?) so I’m worried that a deck that’s an inch and a quarter thick will end up splitting - especially as I haven’t surfed before!
Jumping ahead to finishes - I was going to use an oil finish. Have anyone played about with the Osmo products for finishing like the Osmo Polywax marine finish ? Also I thought about using 2/3 boiled linseed with 1/3 raw tung oil in it (the tung should kick off the drying reaction a bit which should cut down on drying time). Maybe 5 coats of oil ?
Anyway - will post some pics of the build as it goes along. Probably just a simple Alaia for me so that I can ride it belly style for the first few months (years?!).
Thanks afoaf - I’ve read the bamboo fin thread and that’s more concerned with plain sawn stock and reversing the grain for each laminate strip. This is done to negate any movement - the alternating stock counteracts against each other and remains flat. My question is more about a different sort of plank - quarter sawn stock. It’s more stable than plain sawn but stiffer I guess - the question was will a stiffer alaia still work ?
Had thoughts about slotting a spline in for a spline joint. Possibly even pre-curving the spline (not from WRC - maybe a timber that bends well like beech or something springy - will have a think) - probably overkill for a simple board like an alaia but I thought it might be cool to have a bit of pre-curved stress in a board?
inch and a quarter at 90 kg? Should not be a problem with regular joins. Keep it flat unless your going really long. The challenge (for me) is getting the right amount of flexibility in the nose, mid and tail areas of the board for the wave height and rider weight. 11/4 is sunset or waimea thickness for me at 80kg. The stiffness would probably make it a dog without a tow.
The best way to grasp the alaia seems to be going out and getting the cheapest wood available, cutting out your shape and start whittling after sessions. record your thicknesses and comments - Keep whittling till you get under the half inch thick mark or until you find two benefits of being able to reverse your rocker then make another from quality stock.
Glued the two blanks up with West System epoxy - hand planed the edges with a #7 hand plane - bit of light clamping pressure and I guess next is the template (after planing the surfaces flat).
Anyone know of a good place for a 7 foot Ala’ia template ?!
So we made a template. 7’ by 16.5" at widest part.
i don’t think we got the nose too right so I went and added a wider curve to my blank and cut it out.
I’m working late evenings and Sundays with mine so it’s all hand tools to avoid the noise for the neightbours - I think my brother will be using power tools.
Cutting it out was pretty easy - I went wide of the line and then ripped back to it with a scrub plane (works well on edges) and a spoke shave on the tail concave line.
My cat got in on the action - hang five !
I took a scrub plane to the glue lines and the slight uneven top. Couple of passes and it cuts easily enough. Plus I don’t have an 18" planer/thicknesser.
Passed a #5 over it then a #7 and flattened it all out.
Well that’s the deck flattened. Need to do the other side and then square up the edges as they are just roughed out.
Does the nose look ok ?
What thickness are alaia’s normally ? (This is currently 30mm)
I was going to make one without the tail sidecut (parabolic ? is that the term?) but my brother said that the shape we have is easier to surf… is he right ? What are the pro’s and con’s of the two different tail shapes (standard shape vs side cut shape).
Gorgeous wood. Planshape is OK, parabolic rails are supposed to be easier to surf because they provide more control. Thickness is less than 1" in most of the alaias, so you got a lot of work to do.
So thickness wise we’re talking 25mm to 20mm ? Is that a usual thickness ?
What happens if it ends up at about 28mm ? Will it not work because it won’t flex ?
Is it worth adding in a slight bit of rocker ? Are there any alaia’s like this (thicker with a bit o’ rocker) or does the design HAVE to be a flexing deck ?
You are arriving at the stage where the designer/builder takes the creation where he/she wants it to go. My advice… Keep it thick, get some uv protection and water sealer on the wood then take them to the sea. Locate a wave breaking in the same place where it is shallow enough for you to stand with your alaia and try hopping up on a few.
Let me just say you probably wont need to go less than 10mm for things to start livening up.
My advice: Keep it thick. You always can take away wood, but it's kinda hard to put it back :-)
I always put some rocker in my boards, and I've notice that when I build the concave the board tends to bend slightly upwards, ending with more rocker. One more thing: Knifey rails all around hold the board to the wave.
And please don't change your outline, it looks perfect.
Took a gauge to this and marked 27mm around the outline. Flattened the deck down to that but left the fist 300mm of the nose at original height (about 31mm).
Planning on letting the nose rise up a bit to hopefully avoid the nose digging in under the water. It’ll only be the first 300mm and only be about 3 or 4mm higher but might help.
Next steps I guess are to cut the rail bevels…
Was planning on marking a line 5mm down from the deck around the outline and 5mm up from the bottom then cutting down to this to give a basic rail of 17mm thick at the board centerline.
Is this a good rail start point ?
Should the rail line be centred or below centre ?
Going to mark a line on the deck and on the bottom with a gauge about 50mm in from the edge and then cut from this line down to the edge line to give a bevel going around the board.
Is this too wide or not wide enough ?
Also I am guessing that the bevel on the bottom flows into the nose and the bottom of the board needs most of the nose cut away so that the nose curves up.
Where do you start curving the nose up and to what point. I could curve it up to the 5mm deck line I guess ?
that rail thickness would be larger than some. Ive seen and built several with a rail that sits above center. Like a boogy board rail. Regarding the depth of bevel, top and bottom arent always the same. Last one I made was 425mm on bottom and 350mm on top. It was a very thin alaia and only 15.5in. wide.
I think you've managed the shape pretty right for your first time. Have you decided on how to finish the board? I use only Tung Oil (6 to 8 coats the first time, then 1 coat per month to keep it watertight , with good results until now.
I suggest whatever you use for waterproofing is less important than whether it works! Use whatever you have.
Your build is coming along nicely. You've asked a lot of questions and ended up with just about what I've seen (a few times) except that it's a good deal longer. I *think* most alaia's I've seen are in the five foot range. I can't imagine being flexible enough to use a non-floater effectively.
One thing missing from the picture: what waves do you have available to use this? It seems that alaia's want longish peelers, maybe point breaks, and generally not too hollow or powerful. Beach breaks would appear to be too short to get up and going, you have to be "right there". OTOH, a sandy beach break offers the potential to walk in and out, stand while you wait, and push off some.
Wow - 30 weeks on…didn’t have alot of enthusiasm over the winter but my brother turned up about 2 weeks ago and we took it for a spin (mine is finished…)
Worked well but you need a wave of a certain size! We went out in pretty small surf at an empty beach.
ALOT of fun… my brother managed 2 waves (in for an hour after work) and I tried and tried but couldn’t get any (yet).
Anyway, proves that it works.
From what I’ve read you can push down on the nose to reverse the rocker on take off/paddling into a wave. I tried this but I don’t think the board is flexible enough.
I think that I will skim the deck down by 3mm and see how it goes then.
Haven’t finished shaping my brother’s board (he’s busy…) but before he dropped it off he put it through a thicknesser and took it down to 25mm I think.
So maybe I’ll just finish that one and then see if the thinner one works better (and then reshape mine) - I’m suspecting that it will.
Guess having both out for a couple of hours will resolve the flex issue.
He’s more like 110kg and I’m 95kg so that might be why he got the waves (as opposed to 20 years of surfing vs my 20yrs of not surfing!)
Anyone been working on alaia flex ratios?
I thought that regardless of wood type you could measure the flex and work out what it should be for other boards rather than this trial and error stuff.
My thoughts were to put a block of wood at either end under the board and then put a 50kg weight in the middle and measure the deflection.
The reason I ask is that a friend wants an alaia and they are about 70kg.
I was hoping for some metric so that you can build a board which deflects say 30mm down in the middle based on a weight…
I know this is an old thread but thought I would throw you what I have found about thickness.
I have made alaias ranging from 10mm through to 50mm and i have found the ones that surf the best are the 20mm boards BUT! and this is a big but, The boards i have the most fun on are 30-35mm. although they dont surf as well as the thin ones they sre still awesome fun and I have found them to be much more usefull in a wide range of conditions. Im 90kg and 6ft.my alaias are made from paulownia. I hope that your alaia is treating you well and your getting ripping waves! YYYYEEEEIIIIIOOOOO!!
