Have any of you visited the Bishop museum in Honolulu and observed/studied their collection of ancient Hawaiian surfboards? What are they actually like?
I haven’t been to Bishop Museum recently but the last time I was there I recall there being only one ancient Hawaiian surfboard. My memory is a bit foggy but I think it was quite short and narrow. Maybe around 6’ in length? 16" wide? Someone else might have a more acurate description of the board. Perhaps it was used for prone wave riding.
Dale - I haven’t visited the Bishop Museum but they do apparently have a few excellent examples of ancient boards. Like most museums, the good stuff is frequently stashed away in the basement or somewhere out of public view. I’ve had some success by sending in a nominal donation with a written request to view archives for some “scholarly” purpose. The curators seem to like that sort of thing. I remember reading something in a magazine many years ago about ancients but couldn’t remember which publication. I thumbed through many issues in my own archives and came up with the following for you: 1. “Hawaiian Footprints” by George Orbelian Surfer Magazine vol. 30 num. 10 (Oct '89) an excellent write up about a trip by George and George Downing to Bishop. 2. “OLO” by Steve Yarbrough Surfing Magazine Feb '93 - story of Greg Noll’s replicas. 3. “Doc Ball’s Redwood Ripper” by Steve Yarbrough Surfing Magazine Feb’92 - another take on Greg Noll with Doc Ball, Whitey Harrison and Leroy Grannis. Dale - if you don’t have these, I’d be happy to scan and send them to you. Let me know. They are a pretty good reference on ancients.
Dale - I haven’t visited the Bishop Museum but they do apparently have a > few excellent examples of ancient boards. Like most museums, the good > stuff is frequently stashed away in the basement or somewhere out of > public view. I’ve had some success by sending in a nominal donation with a > written request to view archives for some “scholarly” purpose. > The curators seem to like that sort of thing. I remember reading something > in a magazine many years ago about ancients but couldn’t remember which > publication. I thumbed through many issues in my own archives and came up > with the following for you:>>> 1. “Hawaiian Footprints” by George Orbelian Surfer Magazine vol. > 30 num. 10 (Oct '89) an excellent write up about a trip by George and > George Downing to Bishop.>>> 2. “OLO” by Steve Yarbrough Surfing Magazine Feb '93 - story of > Greg Noll’s replicas.>>> 3. “Doc Ball’s Redwood Ripper” by Steve Yarbrough Surfing > Magazine Feb’92 - another take on Greg Noll with Doc Ball, Whitey Harrison > and Leroy Grannis.>>> Dale - if you don’t have these, I’d be happy to scan and send them to you. > Let me know. They are a pretty good reference on ancients. John, Many thanks for the fine info! I
ve never seen any of these resources and would be delighted to study and retain them for reference. Yes, I
d definitely appreciate your help! Dale
Dale - Hope they went through OK. Thanks from all for the stuff you’ve provided on this site!
Dale, I can’t say I’ve studied the boards at the Bishop in any way… but I stood there (this was '93) and stared at the few on display for a few minutes, then, overcome by interest (and a lack of thought) reached out and picked up the ‘Duke’ board to check it’s weight and feel. I thought ‘how simple, clean, and functional this is!.. we are getting far away from the simple act of riding waves nowadays’. It made me sad. Surfing seemed a more simple, more fun, thing back then. Another ‘watery’ Hawaiian way of recreating. Though thinking about this now I remember that there were some pretty strict rules (kapu?) that were put on who surfed where and when… so maybe it supports the ‘what goes around, comes around’ ideas. Maybe we were all Hawaiians a life, or two, ago. That would help explain my interest - - Having never seen a surfboard, I started riding skateboards with the idea present of how it would someday help me with my surfing. BTW - don’t pick up the boards at the Bishop. The guards don’t like it much. Eric>>> Have any of you visited the Bishop museum in Honolulu and observed/studied > their collection of ancient Hawaiian surfboards? What are they actually > like?
Dale, I can’t say I’ve studied the boards at the Bishop in any way… but > I stood there (this was '93) and stared at the few on display for a few > minutes, then, overcome by interest (and a lack of thought) reached out > and picked up the ‘Duke’ board to check it’s weight and feel. I thought > ‘how simple, clean, and functional this is!.. we are getting far away > from the simple act of riding waves nowadays’. It made me sad. Surfing > seemed a more simple, more fun, thing back then. Another ‘watery’ Hawaiian > way of recreating. Though thinking about this now I remember that there > were some pretty strict rules (kapu?) that were put on who surfed where > and when… so maybe it supports the ‘what goes around, comes around’ > ideas. Maybe we were all Hawaiians a life, or two, ago. That would help > explain my interest - - Having never seen a surfboard, I started riding > skateboards with the idea present of how it would someday help me with my > surfing.>>> BTW - don’t pick up the boards at the Bishop. The guards don’t like it > much.>>> Eric Eric, It
s very interesting that your intellectual insights on surfing were deepened by your physical contact with the Duke
s surfboard… I strongly suspect that for as much as we`ve gained in the past 50+ years of surfing, there is still a significant portion of waveriding and surfcraft that we are rapidly moving away from, never to attain, a portion that will remain hidden with the ancients… sad, indeed. Dale
DALE…Sorry to let this letter go unnoticed for so long (was out…surfing the past few days!). This subject is VERY close to my heart, because I am from Hawaii, and am also part Hawaiian. I have been in the Bishop MANY times, and I recommend that you ALL go to our cultural museum when you visit Hawaii!..After all, we are more than just sun and great surf…we are a nationality, and we had/have an interesting culture. With respect to the surfboards, you will ALWAYS find at least some surfboards on display…from the shorter(approximately 6-8 foot) “alai’a” type boards…popular with women, children/teens, and the ali’i (or chiefs/warriors) who wanted some fun. Also in the collection are the famous “olo” boards, preferred by ali’i and larger men (machoism, for definite sure), ranging from 10 -13 feet (and I’ve heard of some even slightly bigger). Someone made a comment that there were probably more surfboards in the Bishop’s collection which were withheld from display, and I can tell you from personal experience, that he was dead on the money. I have been privaledged enough to have stood in their archives, and I can tell you that the collection is, historically, very significant. Believe it or not the British museum has several ancient Hawaiian surfboards, as well. This is kind of a sore spot with us, as many antiquities we considered to be sacred were taken as booty by Captain Cook and his sailors (not so much the surfboards, but more important things {although, I’ll tell you that there was a significant amount of religious dogma and ritual that accompanied the building of a surfboard in ancient Hawaii!}). Many things in the Bishop’s collection are withheld from public display because of their religious significance, or for the fear that some of the items might be damaged in any way. the Bishop makes every effort to accommodate the public, though, and you will all be pleased if you go for a visit. P.S. you will also find some “paipo” boards on display. I also neglected to tell you that even some WOMEN rode olos. A lot of female chiefs and princesses were fond of surfing. A lot of gambling was done on surfers at “contests”, and much like today (in some respect) certain choice spots were reserved for ali’i and kings, alone. I’ve got to go into MY archives this fall and whip out my sources for you all. Surfing was done in a lot of ancient places, but it never reached the apex it did in Hawaii. I’ll do you all one better and let you know that I’ve actually been fortunate enough ( highly privaleged, actually) to have “ridden” an alai’a and an olo. (both from a private collection, and dating to about the mid 19th century…about Lincoln’s time, for reference). the alai’a was amazingly easier to ride than I thought it would be, considering it’s weight and the fact that it was finless. But, then again, the early redwood boards used in waikiki at the turn of the century were patterened after these ancient boards, and were also finless. you see plenty of 20’s stars and starlets (yeah, chicks rode 'em, too!) in early photographs. The olo I rode was another story, though as I’m a squirt of a guy - only 5’8", and weighing in at 158 lbs (guess I’m the dewey weber model). the board weighed WELL over a hundred pounds, and I nearly croaked! You obviously had to have some heft to whip one of these thing around (Ken Bradshaw or Laird, let’s say) - I’m sure I’d have gotten the hang of it in time , but with my gratious “patron” kind of shakey with his priceless board underfoot, and the reef beneath, I figured I’d best not push it. You try it you buy it was not an option for this surf rat!
DALE…Sorry to let this letter go unnoticed for so long (was > out…surfing the past few days!). This subject is VERY close to my heart, > because I am from Hawaii, and am also part Hawaiian. I have been in the > Bishop MANY times, and I recommend that you ALL go to our cultural museum > when you visit Hawaii!..After all, we are more than just sun and great > surf…we are a nationality, and we had/have an interesting culture. With > respect to the surfboards, you will ALWAYS find at least some surfboards > on display…from the shorter(approximately 6-8 foot) “alai’a” > type boards…popular with women, children/teens, and the ali’i (or > chiefs/warriors) who wanted some fun. Also in the collection are the > famous “olo” boards, preferred by ali’i and larger men > (machoism, for definite sure), ranging from 10 -13 feet (and I’ve heard of > some even slightly bigger). Someone made a comment that there were > probably more surfboards in the Bishop’s collection which were withheld > from display, and I can tell you from personal experience, that he was > dead on the money. I have been privaledged enough to have stood in their > archives, and I can tell you that the collection is, historically, very > significant. Believe it or not the British museum has several ancient > Hawaiian surfboards, as well. This is kind of a sore spot with us, as many > antiquities we considered to be sacred were taken as booty by Captain Cook > and his sailors (not so much the surfboards, but more important things > {although, I’ll tell you that there was a significant amount of religious > dogma and ritual that accompanied the building of a surfboard in ancient > Hawaii!}). Many things in the Bishop’s collection are withheld from public > display because of their religious significance, or for the fear that some > of the items might be damaged in any way. the Bishop makes every effort to > accommodate the public, though, and you will all be pleased if you go for > a visit. P.S. you will also find some “paipo” boards on display. > I also neglected to tell you that even some WOMEN rode olos. A lot of > female chiefs and princesses were fond of surfing. A lot of gambling was > done on surfers at “contests”, and much like today (in some > respect) certain choice spots were reserved for ali’i and kings, alone. > I’ve got to go into MY archives this fall and whip out my sources for you > all. Surfing was done in a lot of ancient places, but it never reached the > apex it did in Hawaii. I’ll do you all one better and let you know that > I’ve actually been fortunate enough ( highly privaleged, actually) to have > “ridden” an alai’a and an olo. (both from a private collection, > and dating to about the mid 19th century…about Lincoln’s time, for > reference). the alai’a was amazingly easier to ride than I thought it > would be, considering it’s weight and the fact that it was finless. But, > then again, the early redwood boards used in waikiki at the turn of the > century were patterened after these ancient boards, and were also finless. > you see plenty of 20’s stars and starlets (yeah, chicks rode 'em, too!) in > early photographs. The olo I rode was another story, though as I’m a > squirt of a guy - only 5’8", and weighing in at 158 lbs (guess I’m > the dewey weber model). the board weighed WELL over a hundred pounds, and > I nearly croaked! You obviously had to have some heft to whip one of these > thing around (Ken Bradshaw or Laird, let’s say) - I’m sure I’d have gotten > the hang of it in time , but with my gratious “patron” kind of > shakey with his priceless board underfoot, and the reef beneath, I figured > I’d best not push it. You try it you buy it was not an option for this > surf rat! Tom, You
ve made my day! I never expected to hear from someone who had ridden one of these boards! Over the years, I have become familiar with the general history surrounding ancient Hawaiian surfcraft, but I
m totally delighted to learn someone has actual personal experience to share! I would really enjoy learning more! My desire is that these surfboards could be completely documented, including cross-sectional diagrams of their foil and rail contours. There is so much about them that most of us will never know, let alone see, feel or use. I dont think that it is an exaggeration to surmise that they are a portal into the life and soul of ancient Hawaiians. I have always hoped that someone like George Downing would one day write a book and include his thoughts and observations on this subject. The little bit of his knowledge that I have been fortunate enough to read, concludes that ancient Hawaiian waveriders and their craft appear to have been far more advanced than is commonly assumed. Yet, there is no reason to trust that the examples of old Hawaiian surfboards currently residing in museums are necessarily representative of the Hawaiian
s finest designs or shaping… they are just survivors. Sadly, odds are that the very best ancient Hawaiian surfboards have slowly decomposed and disappeared long ago.
Hi, DALE…was great to get a quick response from you, and I’m glad you were stoked to hear about my “rides” on the “papa he’e nalu” (surfboards, in Hawaiian). Yes, I’m afraid that many of the Hawaiian surfboards of antiquity have been lost or have gone by the wayside. But many may still be in “hiding”. There are a few ancient Hawaiian surfboards acquired by missionaries or their family members, and may have been taken back to the mainland. Besides those ones, I have heard horror stories of people trashing them, so to speak, not knowing their value - often mistaking them for the redwood surfboards of the golden era of the beachboys at waikiki - and not realizing the koa gems of my people. I’ve also heard of stories where these boards were hanging over bars, and in people’s yards bleaching and being drilled by termites. By the way, the boards are, generally, more durable than you’d think. Besides koa, the Hawaiians also used “ulu” or breadfruit wood, and wili-wili, too. the boards were sealed with kukui nut oil and polished to a gloss from what I understand (the physics are creepy with respect to modern boards - some eerie similarities). And, yes, the Hawaiians were most definitely on the right track with their wave dynamics. the boards I “rode” were in fair to good condition, and the noses (both) were intact. the olo was koa, and the nose was rounded like a modern snub noserider. the rails were similar to 50/50. the tail on the olo was like a pintail, and slightly domed,(deck flat). the board was wider than the alai’a which was breadfriut and had a blunted tail (straight across). this one looked similar in aspect to the shorter redwoods used at the turn of the century. yes, someone should take stock, literally, and document all of the existing boards, and do a census in the form of a book. Many surfers at U.H. do papers each year on their favorite subject, and classic tidbits appear on their professor’s desks time and again. The Hamilton library at University of Hawaii(manoa) has a lock and key collection of VERY rare books that they let you peruse at your leisure - you’ve got to KNOW what to look for, though. I’ve spent MANY hours there and when I retire, my dream is to lock my ass in there for a few months (remember Burgess Meredith in the old twilight zone episode)-MINUS the broken glasses! I do know that there is a famous citation by prince DAVID MALO on the lore of ancient religious practices, and , I think, the reference to the selection of trees for a surfboard - and all the accompanying ritual - is the one most people draw from… I see this thing - almost verbatim - anytime a surfmag invokes the past of Hawaiian surfboard lore. I will have to get back to you on this, as you are obviously serious about this subject. stay well…Aloha a hui hou - Tom!
Hi, DALE…was great to get a quick response from you, and I’m glad you > were stoked to hear about my “rides” on the “papa he’e > nalu” (surfboards, in Hawaiian). Yes, I’m afraid that many of the > Hawaiian surfboards of antiquity have been lost or have gone by the > wayside. But many may still be in “hiding”. There are a few > ancient Hawaiian surfboards acquired by missionaries or their family > members, and may have been taken back to the mainland. Besides those ones, > I have heard horror stories of people trashing them, so to speak, not > knowing their value - often mistaking them for the redwood surfboards of > the golden era of the beachboys at waikiki - and not realizing the koa > gems of my people. I’ve also heard of stories where these boards were > hanging over bars, and in people’s yards bleaching and being drilled by > termites. By the way, the boards are, generally, more durable than you’d > think. Besides koa, the Hawaiians also used “ulu” or breadfruit > wood, and wili-wili, too. the boards were sealed with kukui nut oil and > polished to a gloss from what I understand (the physics are creepy with > respect to modern boards - some eerie similarities). And, yes, the > Hawaiians were most definitely on the right track with their wave > dynamics. the boards I “rode” were in fair to good condition, > and the noses (both) were intact. the olo was koa, and the nose was > rounded like a modern snub noserider. the rails were similar to 50/50. the > tail on the olo was like a pintail, and slightly domed,(deck flat). the > board was wider than the alai’a which was breadfriut and had a blunted > tail (straight across). this one looked similar in aspect to the shorter > redwoods used at the turn of the century. yes, someone should take stock, > literally, and document all of the existing boards, and do a census in the > form of a book. Many surfers at U.H. do papers each year on their favorite > subject, and classic tidbits appear on their professor’s desks time and > again. The Hamilton library at University of Hawaii(manoa) has a lock and > key collection of VERY rare books that they let you peruse at your leisure > - you’ve got to KNOW what to look for, though. I’ve spent MANY hours there > and when I retire, my dream is to lock my ass in there for a few months > (remember Burgess Meredith in the old twilight zone episode)-MINUS the > broken glasses! I do know that there is a famous citation by prince DAVID > MALO on the lore of ancient religious practices, and , I think, the > reference to the selection of trees for a surfboard - and all the > accompanying ritual - is the one most people draw from… I see this thing > - almost verbatim - anytime a surfmag invokes the past of Hawaiian > surfboard lore. I will have to get back to you on this, as you are > obviously serious about this subject. stay well…Aloha a hui hou - Tom! Tom, Once again, many thanks for all the great info! You make some tantilizing points regarding the survival of at least a few of Hawaii
s ancient surfboards. I have always wondered if they ever experienced a "golden age" in regards to their various watercraft, did their knowledge and skill gradually evolve over the generations, were there times of sudden discovery or periods where certain forms of riding were more popular... if some riders were actually being towed out to sea by canoes, did they also employ this same means to then seek out swells that were too fast moving, large, and far from shore to be accessed by normal means? Is it feasable that certain breaks, were only allowed to be ridden under the largest, optimum conditions, and then, only by the royalty... who may have been "towed-in" on their giant olo?? Sounds to me like there
s still plenty of room left for some good research… Dale
AMEN, DALE…there is WAY plenty of room for more exploration of the aspects you mentioned…and Hawaiian archaeology, in general. I know, for sure, that there are many untapped areas in Hawaii which lie beneath the rainforests which people have not come upon (vegetative overgrowth, and misinterpretation).(on top of that, there is a lot of treacherous terrain not realized or attempted…YET). As far as an evolution of “style” of types of ancient Hawaiian surfboards…of that, I have no doubt. While initially, the boards followed a ritualistic dogma, the boards were - ultimately - adapted for specific surfing SITES. not unlike the “eskimos” (that’s generalizing for a whole bunch of races, though…{my bad}), the Hawaiians had a myriad of words for WAVES and wave types (and how they break). Hawaiians were terrific watermen…they HAD to be - for survival, and their learning was progressive. Let’s not forget, that my people ultimately came from other places; two generally accepted waves of migrations…the Tahitians, and the Marquesans. What became the Hawaiians were the healthiest paddlers (bigger upperbodies) and some of the most knowledgeable sailors. I’m still not convinced that there WASN"T such a thing as the “menehunes” (you see this name for kids during surfing contests, along with “keiki’s” {for children}) . Menehunes were supposed to be these elves or dwarves who were in Havai’i before the “Hawaiians” arrived. There running joke in Hawaii is that if something is missing, “it must’ve been the menehunes who took 'em”. It is my personal opinion that menehunes DID exist, but they were not magical elves, but MICRONESIANS. The micronesians are some of the most superior navigators on this earth(to this very day), and I suspect that these diminutive people (compared to the large polynesians) were either wiped out or subjugated by (what became) the Hawaiians. No one’s really explored THAT possibility, and the reasons are manyfold. Hawaiian sovereignty issues, and the fact that Hawaiian archeaology takes a lot of time. Many valuable leads were lost when the missionaries came, and the Hawaiian language and culture was snipped almost to extinction.(let alone the people). I know that in recent time, in a cave where an ali’i was buried, they found a mahiole (one of those feathered, crested helmets you often see) along with a lei niho palaoa (a princely neclace of carved whale bone and human hair{the palaoa is whale ivory shaped like an upturned tongue}), the ali’i’s bones and …A holua (sled) and…A SURFBOARD! Rare find, indeed. Surfing was a much loved and spiritual act. there is even a heiau (or temple) on the big island that was dedicated to surfers. it is a stepped lavastone amphitheatre - let’s say which overlooks a surfsite that Kamehameha the 1st used to surf. See…now you’ve got me going. I’m gonna have to leave it for here for the time being , DALE…just got the surf call…A hui hou! T.
AMEN, DALE…there is WAY plenty of room for more exploration of the > aspects you mentioned…and Hawaiian archaeology, in general. I know, for > sure, that there are many untapped areas in Hawaii which lie beneath the > rainforests which people have not come upon (vegetative overgrowth, and > misinterpretation).(on top of that, there is a lot of treacherous terrain > not realized or attempted…YET). As far as an evolution of > “style” of types of ancient Hawaiian surfboards…of that, I > have no doubt. While initially, the boards followed a ritualistic dogma, > the boards were - ultimately - adapted for specific surfing SITES. not > unlike the “eskimos” (that’s generalizing for a whole bunch of > races, though…{my bad}), the Hawaiians had a myriad of words for WAVES > and wave types (and how they break). Hawaiians were terrific > watermen…they HAD to be - for survival, and their learning was > progressive. Let’s not forget, that my people ultimately came from other > places; two generally accepted waves of migrations…the Tahitians, and > the Marquesans. What became the Hawaiians were the healthiest paddlers > (bigger upperbodies) and some of the most knowledgeable sailors. I’m still > not convinced that there WASN"T such a thing as the > “menehunes” (you see this name for kids during surfing contests, > along with “keiki’s” {for children}) . Menehunes were supposed > to be these elves or dwarves who were in Havai’i before the > “Hawaiians” arrived. There running joke in Hawaii is that if > something is missing, “it must’ve been the menehunes who took > 'em”. It is my personal opinion that menehunes DID exist, but they > were not magical elves, but MICRONESIANS. The micronesians are some of the > most superior navigators on this earth(to this very day), and I suspect > that these diminutive people (compared to the large polynesians) were > either wiped out or subjugated by (what became) the Hawaiians. No one’s > really explored THAT possibility, and the reasons are manyfold. Hawaiian > sovereignty issues, and the fact that Hawaiian archeaology takes a lot of > time. Many valuable leads were lost when the missionaries came, and the > Hawaiian language and culture was snipped almost to extinction.(let alone > the people). I know that in recent time, in a cave where an ali’i was > buried, they found a mahiole (one of those feathered, crested helmets you > often see) along with a lei niho palaoa (a princely neclace of carved > whale bone and human hair{the palaoa is whale ivory shaped like an > upturned tongue}), the ali’i’s bones and …A holua (sled) and…A > SURFBOARD! Rare find, indeed. Surfing was a much loved and spiritual act. > there is even a heiau (or temple) on the big island that was dedicated to > surfers. it is a stepped lavastone amphitheatre - let’s say which > overlooks a surfsite that Kamehameha the 1st used to surf. See…now > you’ve got me going. I’m gonna have to leave it for here for the time > being , DALE…just got the surf call…A hui hou! T. Tom, It makes one sad to wonder what`s been destroyed or buried under all that concrete shoreline development! Are the recent archaeological discoveries that you mentioned in the Bishop Museum? Dating/analysis of the human hair in the lei niho palaoa might certainly tell us more than we could ever guess! All this is complicated by the apparent lack of any “written” tradition (true?) in both the Tahitians and the Marquesans. Do you know if there have ever been very many ancient drawings or carvings discovered? You might just suggest a few good books on this subject or websites… if not, you may be one of the chosen people to undertake the compilation of such a project! Certainly a worthy and honorable calling… Again, many thanks for all the fascinating info, Tom.
Howzit, DALE…getting monotonous, eh, brah?!..Yes, those recovered artifacts are, indeed, in the collection of the Bishop museum…but I’m not sure if they’re all on display. With respect to the human remains, I’d pretty much, say NOT! Carbon dating is a given, but with the advent if the new DNA tests, this WAY blows the doors off something as simple as just age (still, only a close approximation with the c-14). This is like a bunch of kids in the candy store for physical anthropologists…the genetic make-ups of ancient peoples can, now , be tied to other peoples - and royal lines substantiated. It’s like a pandora’s box of new opportunity. It’s a wonderful thing, for sure! as far as a written language, one can only speculate. The only remaining (or currently known) “written” things by the Hawaiians, are their rock petroglyphs and symbols which you find scattered throughout the islands - especially on the big island. there are even some on “necker” island which is at the top of the chain - on the way to midway (also considered one of the Hawaiian islands). There’s a popular petroglyph of a surfer that longboard(er?/ing) magazine has adopted as their symbol/masthead…it is adapted from a real petroglyph found on the big island. Unfortunately, we can only guess about what may have been. Hawaiians certainly did a whole bunch of tatooing (nowhere as obsessive as the maoris, though…then again if you look at old engravings you see some Hawaiians tatooed pretty extensively). Why they supposedly stopped at simple petroglyphs is a mystery. In Rapa Nui(commonly known as Easter Island) they had “rongo-rongo” boards…a whole system of glyphs carved into these wood boards. they were meant to be read every other line, then flipped over. The early inhabitants stripped the land of it’s wood to sustain itself (perhaps to use a great deal of the wood as rollers to move the giant “moai” {yeah, the BIG statues}). When the missionaries came, of course the ancient ways were considered pagan and “voodoo”, so they BURNED most of the rongo boards. The few remaining boards were hidden in underground caves by the people of rapa nui. Some were used in hard times for FIREWOOD!!! the mystery of these glyphs stymie the best linguists/graphologists and anthropologists to this day. you wipe out the memory of a people, you complete the subjugation and enable the colonialism. Yeah, it’s sad. We may never Know what went before. As far as stuff covered up in Hawaii as a result of shoreline development…we’re pretty good with that, though,…THESE days (in MODERN times that is …who knows what contractors saw an archaeological site and just kept going). Nowadays, there’s ALWAYS an archeologist/anthropologist on hand in case anything pops up… no monkeyshines these days. PLUS, we’ve got a lot of (BIG-ASS) (AND PATRIOTIC!) Hawaiian construction workers who would simply not have it if something became evident. It’s the bane of contractor’s existence, but too bad…Hawaii was never meant to hold this volume of cement! Well, I’m off my soapbox, now. Have a great day, bro…am off to hit da surf. Alohas, tom!
Tom V - All of your points are well taken. The genocide that has occurred on a global scale is absolutely horrific. In the US, we’ve been taught that the nazis were the worst but in an interesting twist, some Europeans view our treatment of Native Americans (including Hawaiians) as equally brutal. Bear in mind that in some areas at certain times, a bounty was offered for dead Indians! I’d like to think we could all get along at this point but the resentment runs deep and you still have cops like Mark Furman (O.J. Simpson case) and those idiots in New York that violated the guy with a plunger handle and then busted out his teeth as they jammed it down his throat! Who knows how many more cases are out there that we’ll never hear of? Hey - sorry for getting so deep! I wanted to give you a heads up on a book by Georgia Lee - “Spirit of Place” which is about the petroglyphs of Hawaii. It features extensive documentation and analysis of known sites. It sounds like you are knowledgeable on the subject but maybe this would add to your data base?
Mike Casey of www.caseysurfdesigns.com is the best resource of knowledge for ancient Hawaiian surfboards I know. He has spent many hours at the Bishop Museum studying the boards of old. He has taught me much. To view a replica 1930’s Kiko he shaped, go to: www.hawaiisurfauction.com, click “enter”, click “main auction lots”, and in the upper right of the page is one of his masterpieces. Take care! http://www.caseysurfdesigns.com
Howzit, DALE…getting monotonous, eh, brah?!..Yes, those recovered > artifacts are, indeed, in the collection of the Bishop museum…but I’m > not sure if they’re all on display. With respect to the human remains, I’d > pretty much, say NOT! Carbon dating is a given, but with the advent if the > new DNA tests, this WAY blows the doors off something as simple as just > age (still, only a close approximation with the c-14). This is like a > bunch of kids in the candy store for physical anthropologists…the > genetic make-ups of ancient peoples can, now , be tied to other peoples - > and royal lines substantiated. It’s like a pandora’s box of new > opportunity. It’s a wonderful thing, for sure! as far as a written > language, one can only speculate. The only remaining (or currently known) > “written” things by the Hawaiians, are their rock petroglyphs > and symbols which you find scattered throughout the islands - especially > on the big island. there are even some on “necker” island which > is at the top of the chain - on the way to midway (also considered one of > the Hawaiian islands). There’s a popular petroglyph of a surfer that > longboard(er?/ing) magazine has adopted as their symbol/masthead…it is > adapted from a real petroglyph found on the big island. Unfortunately, we > can only guess about what may have been. Hawaiians certainly did a whole > bunch of tatooing (nowhere as obsessive as the maoris, though…then again > if you look at old engravings you see some Hawaiians tatooed pretty > extensively). Why they supposedly stopped at simple petroglyphs is a > mystery. In Rapa Nui(commonly known as Easter Island) they had > “rongo-rongo” boards…a whole system of glyphs carved into > these wood boards. they were meant to be read every other line, then > flipped over. The early inhabitants stripped the land of it’s wood to > sustain itself (perhaps to use a great deal of the wood as rollers to move > the giant “moai” {yeah, the BIG statues}). When the missionaries > came, of course the ancient ways were considered pagan and > “voodoo”, so they BURNED most of the rongo boards. The few > remaining boards were hidden in underground caves by the people of rapa > nui. Some were used in hard times for FIREWOOD!!! the mystery of these > glyphs stymie the best linguists/graphologists and anthropologists to this > day. you wipe out the memory of a people, you complete the subjugation and > enable the colonialism. Yeah, it’s sad. We may never Know what went > before. As far as stuff covered up in Hawaii as a result of shoreline > development…we’re pretty good with that, though,…THESE days (in MODERN > times that is …who knows what contractors saw an archaeological site and > just kept going). Nowadays, there’s ALWAYS an archeologist/anthropologist > on hand in case anything pops up… no monkeyshines these days. PLUS, > we’ve got a lot of (BIG-ASS) (AND PATRIOTIC!) Hawaiian construction > workers who would simply not have it if something became evident. It’s the > bane of contractor’s existence, but too bad…Hawaii was never meant to > hold this volume of cement! Well, I’m off my soapbox, now. Have a great > day, bro…am off to hit da surf. Alohas, tom! Tom, Nahhh, never monotonous, man! This thread has been so fascinating… I
m just a student of life with a lot more questions than answers! If you think of anything else, I
d enjoy seeing it, you have helped a great deal! Many thanks. Dale
Dale, and John…was away a few days …hope you guys come across this…I want you two to pick up, “Feathered Gods and Fishhooks”, by Patrick vinton Kirch. It’s an intro to Hawaiian Archeology. It’s from 1985, but it is one of the best books around - detailing the subject. You will NOT be disappointed. Also, look into my good bros at native books hawaii.com for the direct line into all forms of true Hawaiiana…it’s the REAL DEAL! One of my art professors at U.H. wrote a book specifically about petroglyphs, but I can’t seem to pull it up. Will keep you posted. Much aloha, (sorry if I’ve omitted anyone). A hui hou; Tom V.
Tom - Thanks very much for the book tip! I know this stuff is a little off subject of board design but in my opinion, still relevant. How do we know where we’re going if we don’t know where we’ve been?
Tom - Thanks very much for the book tip! I know this stuff is a little off > subject of board design but in my opinion, still relevant. How do we know > where we’re going if we don’t know where we’ve been? Mucho ditto. Spoken by very wise man.