Howzit all,
I’ve been searching on this one for a while and haven’t turned up a whole lot. Basically, I would just like someone to explain the logic of chine rails. If I’m visualizing things right, it seems like they have a lot of potential, yet they don’t seem to be too common. I’m especially interested in incorporating them into a shortboard.
So, what can you tell me about them?
No big deal.
They work fine to release the rails on a poorly planned rocker line.
If the rocker is good, and so is the outline, it’s not needed.
Disadvantages? Maybe more time shaping, glassing and sanding for something proven to work, but is not nesessary.
This is a Dave Parmenter 5’10 fish.
The rails are chined 360 from nose to tail. It works well. In my experience with fishes, the board needs to ‘disengaged’ from the wave to turn it. But it is still loose. I hear this is/was quite common in kneeboards. Good luck.
what is a chined rail? I am told Walden Magic Models have them.
Sidestreet, The Walden Magic Model, and the Stewart Hydro-Hull each have their versions of chined rails. Interestingly, when Boardworks was alive in it’s first incarnation, the epoxy Magic was their most popular board according to Thane Pope. Also, when I was in the Stewart shop a few years ago, they told me that the Hydro Hull was their most popular model.
I have to disagree with LeeDD. I like the characteristic of chines, especially when they are shaped in conjunction with a center concave down the whole length of the board. Lots of control in trim, and good speed, depending on rocker. Doug
After looking at the photo of the DP fish, I was confused about the term “chine” so I looked it up (in the “Swaylopedia” of course.)
http://www.swaylocks.com/swaylopedia/index.cgi?Chine
On the DP fish, the rail crown (where it meets the deck) appears to have a defined edge, kind of like the old G&S Waterskate. Is this edge being referred to as a chine or is there something going on underneath?
If we can all agree that a defined edge along the rail crown is a “chine”, maybe the Swaylopedia needs an update?
(A quick definition search on Google was anything but clear. I guess it can be either one at least as applied to boat/kayak design.)
I always thought that chines were on the bottom(rails) of the board. But in the pic of the parm-board the top rail is angled. I have a GL longboard with chines…it goes very well, my favorite LB. I have a new twin/fish from a cali shaper( big time name…) and his board has the combo that Doug S spoke of(except the vee…)… center concave to vee…with chined rails that start 8" from the nose and fade into the vee at(2/3rds back) the rear of the board. The board goes great,very fast,loose and forgiving. The chine is VERY subtle but is there. I used this combo on a recent board and it is the best handling one I have. I personally like 'em and will use subtle variations in the future…YMMV.Have fun…
I thought of a chine as being a defined edge on the circumferential rail edge.
Any part of it.
I did not know that it was confined to the bottom.
When there is a concensus, let me in on the loop.
A chine is a boatbuilding term for a flat spot, lengthwise along the hull, as part of the overall rail/hull curve. They can be above or below, single-chined or multiple. Check out skin-on-frame sea kayaks and you’ll see chines everywhere.
I like them on the top of really big longboards, in the middle half of the board or so, because then you can have round rails that aren’t too big a radius and also keep volume in the deck, not have to dome it. You use a chine area as a transition.
I also like them around the underside nose of a longboard as they sheet water away better. I think it helps noseriding and I know it makes for drier paddling 
A chine is a boatbuilding term for a flat spot, lengthwise along the hull, as part of the overall rail/hull curve. They can be above or below, single-chined or multiple. Check out skin-on-frame sea kayaks and you’ll see chines everywhere……
In naval architecture (as far back as at least the 13th century) the term “chine” referred to the intersection of the bottom of a hull with the sides of a hull (the term becoming undefined or poorly defined in the case of a round bottom hull).
This junction may have various forms, resulting in the use of various adjectives to indicate the type of form. A chine with an abrupt break at the junction is commonly referred to as a “hard chined” hull. A hull with a more curved junction is commonly referred to as a “soft chined” hull. Hence the closest surfing equivalent to the two naval architecture terms would be “hard” and “soft” rails.
The line along the length of a hull defined by the junction of the side of a hull with the bottom is referred to as the “chine line”. As with “hard” and “soft” chines, the definition has been expanded to recognize that a hull can have multiple chine lines. An example is a hull with a “beveled chine” (resulting in two chine lines). In surfboard design, use of the term “chine rail” (and sometimes–but in my opinion, erroneously–the term “chine”) is usually meant to refer to something approximating a beveled chine.
Within the surfing world, one also occasionally hears the term “chime” used in place of “chine”. The only reference I have (personally) seen to the usage of “chime” in naval architecture was in an Australian publication. Use of the term “chime” seemed to originate in the Santa Barbara area, so perhaps GG imported this alternative into the surfing jargon in the US.
george panton was building boards on the east coast in the 70’s. mostly singlefins in the 6’4 - 6’8 range. he was strongly advocating a chine rail at that time. chine was a hard edge coming pff the bottom up to about the midpoint of the rail as i recollect.
anyone else remember these?
i do have an old ocean avenue rocket fish with hard chines such as are shown on the parmenter fish. i thought the purpose was to keep max volume out to the rail.
demonstrative feature in a design that says here look at me
more often than not thoughtfully placed to enhance release
rather than holding in
big boat design lifted and transposed to surfboards
in place in boat building because of limitations of milled lumber
the evolution of boat building through the centuries
has had to make concessions in design to accomodate availiable materials.
…ambrose…
“… I hear this is/was quite common in kneeboards…”
1975ish Jackson kneeboard …
demonstrative feature in a design that says here look at me
more often than not thoughtfully placed to enhance release
rather than holding in
big boat design lifted and transposed to surfboards
in place in boat building because of limitations of milled lumber
the evolution of boat building through the centuries
has had to make concessions in design to accomodate availiable materials.
…ambrose…
Beveled chines (often referred to as “non-trip” chines) were (are?) also used on some high-speed power boats to minimize the chance of flipping (in particular a roll to the outside of the turn) when turning at speed on choppy water.
I am only a fly on the wall of course, but I was musing about chines, and the most obvious hard chine surfboard is the old Blake style ‘Kookbox’ which has a rectangular cross section with 90 degree chines.
This same hull form is used on the New Zealand ‘Moth’ class sailing dinghy, and the hard chine is used to reduce leeway… .the boats have a smallish centreboard and upwind they are sailed at quite a large angle of heel to get that leeward chine acting as a keel. I was wondering if the finless (or nearly finless) Blake boards used the hard chine as a virtual keel fin?
http://www.rohanveal.com/photos/2004_europeans/ocean_images_1.jpg
a chine is somthing you get on your shoes in Tijuana
Wow,
I’m thrilled to see all the responses. My computer bit the dust right after I posted the question, so I’m a little late in responding.
In “Essential Surfing” by George Orbelian, he has a basic sketch of a chine rail which looks more or less like what you would get if you shaped an extremely deep tucked-edge rail and didn’t bother to blend the bevel into the apex of the rail.
I just got to see some chined Stewart longboards where the facet runs virtually the full length of the board, maxing around the middle at about 1/4" deep and about 2 or three inches into the bottom, with no really sharp edges, instead very rounded or blended together.
Here’s what I’ve been wondering:
If you shaped a shortboard with a wide planshape, then drew a narrower planshape along the bottom and shaped the chines to connect the two outlines, maybe softening them in the front half of the board, could you possibly get something that paddles and catches waves like the wide board but planes or goes rail to rail like the narrower board. Maybe that’s what’s going on with the examples you mentioned and I’m missing the point, or maybe I’m over-simplifying things.
Either way, I’m just trying to understand what’s going on with them.
Thanks to everyone for your input, whether you’re for them or against them.
drew
Hi Ambrose, here’s the NZ Moth (Hardchine scow, still going strong)
And the International Moth picture from your link. Usually these skiffs don’t have a chine but this one looks like it does. . not that the hull really matters when hydrofoiling
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8365104/LIHU‘E — For 64 years of his life, 72-year-old Lihu‘e resident Bob Casey has lived and breathed the ocean, through surfing and sailing.
Bob Casey of Lihu‘e seems pleased with the finished product, a sailing canoe he hopes to use to teach children not only a love for the ocean and sailing, but the importance of preserving ocean resources.
Now he wants to share his knowledge of the sea with the youth of Kaua‘i.
Over a year’s time, Casey built a sailing outrigger vessel that is patterned after sailing vessels found in Tahiti, and wants to teach Kaua‘i’s youth how to sail.
His catamaran, named Manuba‘a, which means “bird ship,” is ready for the task, Casey told The Garden Island in a recent interview.
see pictures in article… chimey!!!
…ambrose…
