Sounds like you’re doing the same things the same way I am. Is this patent infringement? I doubt it and I hope it works well for you as well.
A new guy moved into the shop next door. A fiberglass guru with years and years of experience on boats. We quickly become friends. I want some work on my boat so he says “let me do it”. I think I know what I want and how to do it but agree he’s the man for the job. I ask to help, “nah, you’ll just get in the way”. No bruised ego, but I know a thing or two about fiberglass. I persist as the weekend only job drags out longer than my patience. The answer: “you’ll have to buy the DVD”
The boat looks a million times better than I had ever imagined. Point is that this really is competetive, and the piece of that pie is really really really small. Not too many are getting fat enough for hand outs.
Get a job that can’t be outsourced, great advice. Probably the difference is this: I get to surf out back whenever I want, all the best tides. My friends with real jobs go to Indo:) In the meantime, get dirty building your own in the garage. F**ing up your own boards (and your friends’) is the best learning tool, that’s what I did. If you just wanna watch some boards get shaped out by a hack, there’s a webcam in my shape room, if you can find it, and if I’m in there, it’s free.
Silly hit the nail on the head,
Don’t give up the day job.
You need many fingers in may pies, set up your own workshop in a garage,shed or basement. Do ding repair for $, this will pay for the foam to mow, learn to make the entire board from scratch, shape, glass it, sand it, finish it, surf it or sell it, use the money for more materials. Do anything else to make $ to pay for foam, make fins, skate decks, model surfboards, paintings and art.
Make them coz you love doing it, not for profit. Take pride in your work. There is very little money to be made, the ding repair will make more profit than shaping. Build up a customer base, show your boards off and pretty soon people will be asking you to make em boards.
Thats where I’m at now, so maybe in a few more years I’ll be able to give up the day job, but if not I’m still loving making boards.
Hi,
I read all the posts, and I dare to say in Brazil is pretty like any place on earth in terms of apprentiship opportunities in this area. But, if could help you, I guess you would not mention you are interested in a shaper apprentiship. I would try to get in the factories as a fin installer, sander, glasser, or whatever can be made inside these desire temples. I know several shapers who started fixing boards…
Apprenticeship suggestion; McDeee if you want to be a surfboard builder, you have to learn how to build surfboards from the bottom up. You should start off glassing everything you shape. You will quikly learn how to make sure your stringers are down to prevent sand throughs and how to finish your nose and tails so that the glass will lap around them properly.
You do need to start at the bottom and learn the complete process. Ding repair is the best way to get your hands on alot of different boards and get familiar with mixing resin, fairing in repairs to match existing shapes, and looking at boards from all kinds of different builders. Starting off hotcoating or doing fin instalation will get you scheduling experience and valuable knowledge about the inner workings of the surfboard building process. Some people have posted that it is “mundane” but the business of surfboard building is learning how to do steps of the process precisley 8 to 12 boards at a time.
Some people have suggested that construction trades are a better way to go for work, here in SoCal that is no longer true. With the trade unions gone, foreign and out of state workers have driven wages down. Housing has hit a big slowdown in the last year here locally while at the same time there is a crucial shortage of qualified laminators. Any motivated, skilled laminator who wants to work 8hrs a day can be earning $1,000 a week in SoCal.
Something else to consider in the board building equasion for the future is how all the adavanced composite techniques are going to effect the future of surfboard production. Board builders who are skilled in all facets of the building process will be better off at adapting new technologies. You have to be not only a skilled shaper but an expert glasser as well.
I started off doing ding repair in my garage, then I started building complete boards in my garage. My 1st factory job was packing boards and cleaning up, then I moved up to hotcoating. If you really want to understand how to make surfbaords you have to start at the bottom and learn the whole process. You can make a living building surfboards but always remember this; it is a process of passion, not profit.
See ya in the water, Byron
the "top " being carving some foam into a curved plank with a planer??
sorry
couldnt help myself
http://www.jipers.com/creation/images/sculpture/sculpture-polystyrene-painted.jpg
http://www.pascalrosier.com/conseil/exemples/sculpture_en_polystyrene/sculpture_en_polystyrene.htm
Apologies to Silly if my tone came off as anything less than cheery, just laying out my thoughts on what it takes to be a complete surfboard builder. I strongly feel that there is a big difference between being a shaper and a surfboard builder. A surfboard builder knows the whole process inside and out, not just a curved piece of foam but what it takes to build a completed surfable board. This is especially more critical now as the traditional construction methods are rapidly evolving.
And “top” is only a perception. In most production scenarios the sander is the last one to touch the board before it becomes surfable, so one could argue the shaper is at the “bottom” and the sander is at the “top”. Production laminating is the hardest job in any factory, some would argue that this would qualify it as the “top” job in a factory. The mega conglomeration of SurfTech/GSI is the single largest producer of boards in the world, they are the “top” board producer and have no shapers in thier pop-out assembly line production process.
Cheers, Byron
Do not get caught up in thinking that you have to be “mentored” or taught by an expert craftsman to become one. The number one most important thing you can do is to just go to work and learn the craft hands on. Something that many people do not realize is that you could have the best shaper, glasser, etc. in the world show you all the “secrets”, but until you put in the time and learn to use your tools and control the medium and materials, all that knowledge is useless. Your hands have to do what your mind sees and that is a skill only developed by practice and feel.
Another invaluable aspect of getting in there and doing it all yourself is that you develop your own “secrets” and your own techniques that allow the given talents you have to fully be expressed. Certainly there is something to be learned from imitation, but eventually, if you have a true talent and gift, your own ideas will flow freely from your mind through your hands to create beautiful, functional boards.
I believe it is also very important that you surf what you build and get other surfers whom you know can intelligently discuss the design features of a board and articulate it’s performance to give you feedback and then build upon that base. This is where keeping a detailed notebook of every board and design and how they go is so very important. It involves alot of work, testing, experimentation and accurate note taking on the results in order to extrapolate the fine points and apply it to the boards you build.
I have been building my own boards off and on for many years, starting when I was 14 (I am now 44) and have always done all the shaping, glassing, sanding, finning, everything myself to not only improve my skills in the complete range of board building, but to also gain a deeper understanding of how each process affects the other. I also have always had a quiver of boards from name shapers to ride and use as a comparison or standard if you will. In my notebook, I have the complete dimensions and surfing characteristics of all these boards so that when I go to build a board for myself or a customer, I can refer to these notes for specific design features and combinations that may fit what we are looking for.
Over the years I have talked to master shapers, glassers and had the opportunity to watch a few in action, certainly gleaned some knowledge from them, but the most valuable things I have learned that really made me understand the craft was getting down to it and building boards, then testing them in a variety of waves and taking notes. Nobody but myself and experience could have “shown” me what I now feel with my hands through my tools when I build a board.
I really care about the underground/backyard board builder and I hope this at least gives another insight on learning the art. As a side note, I was also very eager to get a job and be an apprentice in the industry at one time and it is very hard to get any kind of position like that. So, I decided I would just go to it and develop my skills and low and behold, I know have a flow of business myself from putting in that time, it just happens. Also, do not forget the incredible amount of information available on this fantastic website (thank’s Swaylocks!) and also the many DVD’s now available and even You Tube with it’s many visuals on board building. There is alot out there and the teacher will come when the student is ready!
Bob Johnson
Custom Surfboards
Hand Crafted in USA
nah nah
i agree with you man
if i wanted to get into shaping id go get a sanding or glassing job
and just rip out a few when no ones looking
Thanks to Swaylock’s I have come to the conclusion that I only need a week or two with a master shaper to improve my techniques. I would love for someone to critique my work. I should have added that I’ve personally shaped, glassed, and finished around 10 boards, I assisted with construction of 15 more, and I’ve probably done around 70 or more ding repairs. So I have some experience in the field. My brother and I shaped our first commissioned custom boards around a year ago, we loved everything about it. Making a board for a specific surfer, or reason was the most rewarding process. Giving a finished board to the owner for the first time was an extremely good feeling (I felt like a father).
I'm located in Maine. I only know of 1 shaper here, and two in Nh. Neither of which had the time to return messages I sent, so I assume they wouldn't have the time to critique my work. I'll probably keep calling until I get a response. Thanks for all of the good feedback. I don't understand why you would take the time of day to post a negative response or grammatical correction. I meant what I said. It is blatantly an art which is backed by science.
Pura Vida
Quote:
Thanks to Swaylock’s I have come to the conclusion that I only need a week or two with a master shaper to perfect my techniques. I would love for someone to critique my work. I should have added that I’ve personally shaped, glassed, and finished around 10 boards, I assisted with construction of 15 more, and I’ve probably done around 70 or more ding repairs. So I have some experience in the field. My brother and I shaped our first commissioned custom boards around a year ago, we loved everything about it. Making a board for a specific surfer, or reason was the most rewarding process. Giving a finished board to the owner for the first time was an extremely good feeling (I felt like a father).
I’m located in Maine. I only know of 1 shaper here, and two in Nh. Neither of which had the time to return messages I sent, so I assume they wouldn’t have the time to critique my work. I’ll probably keep calling until I get a response. Thanks for all of the good feedback. I don’t understand why you would take the time of day to post a negative response or grammatical correction. I meant what I said. It is blatantly an art which is backed by science.
Pura Vida
sorry man thats funny!! not to put you down or anything, but you have shaped and glassed 15 boards and you think you need a week with a shaper to perfect your technique!!
last month i spent a 3 weeks in california watching and making a board with jim phillips and bill thrailkill! then got to watch darth and the guys do some glassing!! gotta say never been so put in my place and ive done over 400 boards myself.
maybe go sweep a shapers floor and watch a bit and make some more boards this is one skilled profession! so after 15 boards you aint got it wired.
im glad i didnt take any of my boards in for jim and bill to take a closer look at! but coming back after spending the time with them has given me a whole new approach to shaping a good board!!
just make some more boards and hopefully get materials back for them and all is well then maybe go to a shaper.
good luck
yeah, I meant to say improve my techniques. I am sure that I will never have a “perfect technique” I don’t even know if that exists. However I would love to watch someone with a near perfect technique build a board. Sorry for the typo, and thanks for the correction.
i was just like you.
dont get discouraged…i started at the “bottom” kept my head down and soaked in everything people told me. filterd it down to what worked for me and now i build surfboards as a “surfboard builder” but the main thing is i am still learning!
i have a good buddy thats watched me build boards for over three years. he can tell you word for word how i do everything.
so…
i put the scissors in his hand and have him cutting cloth for me, never seen him shake so much, so nervous at first butby the end of the night he was snapping cuts a lot better than at first. its all about hands on experience, let a local shop know your serious and then do the best you can and in ten years you should be "ok or “good”
the main thing is you have two eyes and one mouth so use your mouth half as much as your eyes.
good luck and if you make it this way ill put a squeegy in your hand.
or forge your own path
develop you own methods
and step outside the status qou
ive only ever used sways and never seen a normal; surfboard making place or seen any glassers or shapers
(other then bambaams glassing video)
in fact i was asking a few expert glasssers about epoxy a few years ago and they told me it was shit
and these are guys that have been in the industry for many years
so when i discoverd berts post i relized that the surfboard industry was very stagnating
and now after two years part time of dealing with the industry
its a relief to find guys that dont play the potato chip surfboard mafia game
berts boards were a testimony to industry stagnation
Quote:
or forge your own path
develop you own methods
and step outside the status qou
ive only ever used sways and never seen a normal; surfboard making place or seen any glassers or shapers
(other then bambaams glassing video)
in fact i was asking a few expert glasssers about epoxy a few years ago and they told me it was shit
and these are guys that have been in the industry for many years
so when i discoverd berts post i relized that the surfboard industry was very stagnating
and now after two years part time of dealing with the industry
its a relief to find guys that dont play the potato chip surfboard mafia game
berts boards were a testimony to industry stagnation
there is a surboard mafia?..lmao
maybe you should go by a glass shop before you make such claims?
darth epoxy was a dirty word in NZ until recently
when the industry relized it had to catch up to imports qaulity.
so if i had of listened to the builders i talked to
i wouldnt be doin what im doing
surfboard mafia you say?
yep big manufactures put pressure on wholsalers to not supply smaller manufactures
i read a bit on clark foams history in the states as well
in saying that though
someone has offerd to help me out with some traditional glassing techniques
like fill and gloss coats and using polyester
which i am really looking forward to
i really respect the colour work and great cosmetics that pro glassers get
i guess its just not availalble to me so i figured out my own way through sways and practice
and what im trying to say is that this approach can yield good results as well
Quote:
surfboard mafia you say?
yep big manufactures put pressure on wholsalers to not supply smaller manufactures
i read a bit on clark foams history in the states as well
It’s my understanding Clark would sell to anyone that paid.
Yes…big manufactures will not sell to the small guy. The entire industry in America is built on it. Dork surf reps with cool sufer lingo holding out for the big shops that could really care less about their product. The same dork reps trying to sell it to the same shop they held out on when their rag company is on it’s way out and they are desperate to keep their jobs. Now you have the " Future of Surfboards" and the like acting the same way like it’s some right of passage.
The sooner they all belly up the better the surf industry environment will be for the creative smaller guys again. Heck…I find it funny that the thing that shows the most promise " Sacred Craft" was actually thought up by a major mag web editor. I think those shows without the tourist crap and large companies are the future. Kind of a world Bizzare of surfboards.
Viva la revolution
i agree epoxy is like the red headed step child of surfing. i think it got a bad rap cause it takes a little longer and has had some rough out comes for people who try to push the limits of the material or don’t get the 2to 1 just right. but when you do it right the boards are stronger. definatley a different feel from the board though. but another story.
as southern California is in the mists of a fire storm from sd to la, i think about how its most important that you enjoy what you do.
when i started in this industry in ding repair at 18 i didn’t once think i would still be building boards today.
im not in it for money or fame, i just love my job.
i would encourage anyone looking to build surfboards to get the fundamentals of surfboard building down to better understand what exactly it is that needs to be done, that will help you no matter what materials you decide to use the fundamentals are the same.
im sure somewhere on the east coast there some really good glass shops, but i think i got lucky living in encinitas CA. i landed in the lions den of surfboard building and history. there are lots of jobs available and everyone even the little back yard guys out here have the ability to get what ever they need to build boards. weather its one a year or 120 WEEK.
people come from all around the world to build surfboards. here.
so load up a car come out to surf spend some time getting the basics and then make the decission. Get on a good Team of board builders, or go for the solo show, whatever you do wherever you do it. theres nothing to it but to do it.
Swaylock’s is the sh*t. I don’t have very many people to talk to about this kinda stuff but this website makes it possible, it’s rad. Thanks for all the input, I really do appreciate it.