Before or after the blank is shaped? I have only attached them after shaping the blank then shaped the block. The other day a well known shaper made a comment as to why I did not attach them before I shaped the blank. I started to wonder which way would produce the best results with the least chance of error?
Thanks for any comments.
Troy
Howzit tboards, I find the easiest and best way is to attach the tail block after the board is hot coated. Just cut off the tail and sand the area down to the weave and glue the block on and sand it to fit, then glass it and blend to the sanded glass… This way you don’t have to worry about hitting the foam which I have seen done by shapers quite a few times. Aloha,Kokua
Best results, after shaped. I’ve done it both ways. Either way, you need a SHARP block plane.
I do it after the blank is shaped, but before lamination, so that the fiberglass ties everything together. I think Jim Phillips does it the other way…after the hotcoat.
Whichever way you do it, I’ve found that it’s best to preshape the wood before you attach it. Get it about 95% shaped, so you only have to do fine tuning once it’s on the board. Saves goofs and headaches.
Doug
You might be a Redneck if…You’ve lived in the same house at five different addresses.
.........Your front yard is on more than one prayer list.
I totally agree with Kokua and the other guys that put it on after hotcoating. It is soooo much easier and I really do not believe the argument that having it under the laminations holds any merit for strength wahtsoever…not if you shape it out and glass substantial layers over the block then fair them in and finish out the board. There is no danger of shearing.
I’ve done a lot of longboards this way and even more sailboards that had beautiful mitired nose and tailblocks. I’ve done it on the foam but in the end, I have to say it’s a pain in the ass versus grabbing your grinder roughing the block down to the hotcoat then finishing it for glassing.
should you put some dowls or biscut joint between the tail block and the foam ? for strength . or just glue it on then cloth
DeadShaper,
I’m not understanding your post. You stated that you “do not believe the argument that having it under the laminations holds any merit for strength whatsoever”. but then: …“if you shape it out and glass substantial layers over the block then fair them in and finish out the board.”
Are you layering glass and resin over the tailblock when it’s separate from the board, then glueing it to the board, then glossing over the whole thing? Could you explain it again with a little more detail? Thanks.
Doug
Howzit Doug, You attach the tail block then glass over it extending the glass over the sanded area on the board. The only thing to do is make sure you make a straight cut off of the tail. Like DeadShaper said it’s the easiest way and you won’t sand into the foam which does happen alot when attaching directly to the foam. Try it you’ll love it.Aloha,Kokua
Howzit sonny, you can just use tooth picks and zap a gap to glue it on. The glass is where the strength is,the tooth picks just hold it in place while the glue dries. Aloha,Kokua
Right on KK…think about it, what’s easier and safer. To shape a hard tailblock next to soft foam or to shape a hard tailblock next to something hard. (I did multi colored fiberglass blocks I got from fin manufacturers as well as wood).
It is so much easier to just grind down a block to the shape of the glassed tail…time is money for some of us…hobbyists can spend 3 weeks working on it if they like…we can’t afford to!
I know someone mentioned to shape down the block before attaching, but in production I never did that. I slapped them on and had them rough cut fairly close then took them the rest of the way. If you glued the block on properly, they shouldn’t pop off while working on them. I would score the block and foam before attaching…like ceramics.
i was going to glue it on with poly resin. is epoxy or wood glue better
If you are starting off use the method that Kokua suggests. I glassed a few boards with volan glass (w/ cut lines) and it looked a lot better if I glassed the board with the tail block already on. If this is an issue, make sure you tape off the foam before placing the tail block and shaping it. The tape will be a good indicator of letting you know are getting too close to damaging the foam.
I use gorrilla glue, 5-min epoxy or sometimes bondo to adhere the tail block to the blank. Bondo dries looking like another layer of wood.
D
If you put it on before the glassing …use hotmelt,
…it’s unbeatable.
Quick and easy to use,bonds well enough and easy to work with.(A tip from Rich Harbour).
Also the cheapest to use per volume to $ ratio.
…you can get hot melt guns and extra sticks at the 99centsonly stores.H
I use Kokua’s method. Learned it right here on Swaylock’s. After shaping the tail block I seal it with a coat of resin and then come back later, scuff if off and glass every thing. As long as I’m doing all this extra work I cap the fin box at the same time.
I chop the tail/nose off after shaping but before glassing…
Use the bits you’ve chopped off to compare size shape etc…
Shape the wood and do as much as you can before gluing back onto the board…
Have some masking tape ready to hold it in place…
If you are using colour paint the flat area where you cut it off before affixing the block/s…
No accidents trying to work with hard wood next to soft foam and no white areas…
I would have to agree with kokua, and i haven’t even done it his way but logically it makes alot of sense. im doing my board with end blocks nose and tail, and like they been saying it was an ass to do, forever watchin out for the foam, and its eps so it dont take much to hurt.
It seems logical at first to put them on as you shape(i did anyway, but im not that logical either…) But when you think deeper it isnt a good way really.
So thanks kokua, i will be doing it your way if ya dont mind…
Cheers
Thanks everyone for the excellent points to ponder. I have been using the process similar to UncleD with 5 min. epoxy. I find that a 6inch pad on my polisher does quick work taking down the block to finish. Never took a block down with planes, even though that was how I was originally taught. I have to admit Kokua’s (and others) after lamination process makes good sense with less chance of error. All good stuff gentlemen. Thanks again.
Troy
Kokua, The only thing that sort of puzzles me is glassing the fabric over the hotcoat. Do you sand down the hotcoat in the tail area first so there’s no bump? And after the tailblock is attached, do you then have to hotcoat it separately before gloss? Everyone says this is a good way to go, but since I haven’t seen it done I still need to fill in the blanks. Thanks.
Doug
yer sand the hot coat a few inches in front of the tail block down to the weave, glass over then feather/blend the edges of the new glass into the the prev layers. Think of it an elaborate ding repair, same procedure more or less.
DS…
Kokua would tell you…yes, you must sand the hotcoat before glassing (and hotcoating) over the finish shaped blocks. You also need to sand a far distance so you have a gradual transition that doesn’t make for a bump. Fairing in always needs a shallow angle…get it?
It may seem to some of you that adding the block afterward then having to shape, glass, hotcoat and sand it out is extra work…BUT it is well worth it. It makes life easier. Believe me.
Maybe I’m heavy handed or whatever, but hot melt glue guns didn’twork that well for me. I had better success with 5 minute epoxy or PU and toothpicks, finish nails whatever to hold the block on so I could rough it out and finish shape it. The gluesticks I had would get hot and the bond could fail.
I really don’t get why one of you would cut off the nose or tail and color and glass thischopped area before adding the block…seems like a lot of extra work for nothing. Frequently I just took a nail or a punch and put a bunch of holes in the foam of the cut off area then did the same to the block (being careful that the holes weren’t to close to the finished surface of the block) then mixed some resin and a little Q cell and stuck them on. Who cares if there s a glass layer between them? Why? The glass layer doesn’t create as much tooth for holding as scoring or holes do.
Keep it simple…don’t reinvent the wheel. GET ER DONE!!!