Wooden fin questions: 1.What type of wood do you use for the core? 2.What width do you start with and how many layers of glass is standard? 3.If you are making a fin composed of several woods (like Pauls’ 11" Big Fin of Mahogany & Alaskan Yellow Cedar) what process do you use to bind the woods together? 4.Do you glue blocks of wood together and then bandsaw off many thin layers of the composite? Finally, what size pin do you use to hold in the front of the fin in the box and where do you get the hardware to screw in the the backside of the fins? Thanks to all. Magoo
Magoo: The stainless hardware can be found through Larry Block Enterprises- Chatsworth,Ca. (805)583-0057.(3/4" stainless screw with 10/32" thread size and the backing plate). Others have suggested using a nylon screw which is a good idea, hopefully the softer plastic will shear off before the fin box fractures on severe impact. The lateral pin is called a stainless roll pin, easy to find at a marine hardware store, 1/8" or so. Take a sample with you. tom>>> Wooden fin questions:>>> 1.What type of wood do you use for the core? 2.What width do you start > with and how many layers of glass is standard? 3.If you are making a fin > composed of several woods (like Pauls’ 11" Big Fin of Mahogany & > Alaskan Yellow Cedar) what process do you use to bind the woods together? > 4.Do you glue blocks of wood together and then bandsaw off many thin > layers of the composite? Finally, what size pin do you use to hold in the > front of the fin in the box and where do you get the hardware to screw in > the the backside of the fins?>>> Thanks to all.>>> Magoo
Wooden fin questions:>>> 1.What type of wood do you use for the core? 2.What width do you start > with and how many layers of glass is standard? 3.If you are making a fin > composed of several woods (like Pauls’ 11" Big Fin of Mahogany & > Alaskan Yellow Cedar) what process do you use to bind the woods together? > 4.Do you glue blocks of wood together and then bandsaw off many thin > layers of the composite? Finally, what size pin do you use to hold in the > front of the fin in the box and where do you get the hardware to screw in > the the backside of the fins?>>> Thanks to all.>>> Magoo First, what kind of template will you use and how deep a fin are you gonna make? Mahogany is always a good choice; it has good grain characteristics and laminates well. A piece of marine grade Afrian mahongany might be a good ticket and would save alot of work. If you laminate yourself the more epoxy laminations the stronger it will be but that’ll make it heavier too. Make sure all your hardware is stainless. I’d stay away from plastic screws myself but do what you think best. Oh, make sure the base is laminated well into the fin so the tab doesn’t shear off. Best, Rich
I’m by no means a fin master. I have had some success however with a core fiberglass laminate (10 layers or so of 6 oz.) sandwiched between a layer of wood on each side. When foiled, you have a “bead” of glass surrounding the fin. Laminate some more cloth (4 layers +/-) on each side, hot coat, sand and gloss and you’ll hopefully have a nice wood grain fin with a protective glass edge. For a box fin, stop the wood above the base area and add some cloth for proper thickness to fit the slot.
Wooden fin questions: 1.What type of wood do you use for the core? …9 ply 1/2" baltic birch plywood or solid wood…Plywood for easy foiling…solid for aesthetic’s… 2.What width do you start with and how many layers of glass is standard? …If it’s a plywood fin, I’ll put an 1/8" fiberglass core in between the 1/2" sides…After the glass sets up, cut out the fin template, rough sand the profile, foil with a 4" grinder with a 36 grit disc, hand sand to 100 grit…Glass each side with 2 layers of 6 oz…If the fin is thicker than 3/8" I put the pin at the rear edge of the fin…The tab that has the screw hole is solid glass roving that I extend into the base of the fin (the part that is inside the fin box)…That’s a simplified description of how I make some of my fins… 3.If you are making a fin composed of several woods (like Pauls’ 11" Big Fin of Mahogany & Alaskan Yellow Cedar) what process do you use to bind the woods together? …Elmers yellow glue…If the fin has curves wood panels use curved glue…(just kidding)… 4.Do you glue blocks of wood together and then bandsaw off many thin layers of the composite? …I’ll cut tapered 3/4’ thick redwood and Alaskan cedar wedges on my table saw, glue them together on a scrap piece of plwood (with paper on the plywood to prevent the fin panel being glued to the plywood)…After the panel is glued and dried, I’ll scape the excess glue, the belt sand it flat…Then I cut the fin profile from the panel…To get the right thickness I cut the fin vertically on my table saw (THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS, IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, DON’T !!!)If I’m making a “rising sun” fin, I like to put a disc of redwood at the “heart of the sun”…I’ll use a hole saw to drill it from some scrap redwood, then carefully trace it on the fin, the cut it out with a scroll saw, then glue it…Foiling and glassing is similar to what I described above… 5.What size pin do you use to hold in the front of the fin in the box and where do you get the hardware to screw in the the backside of the fins? …I use 8/32 stainless steel screws for pins…Drill a tight pilot hole,screw in the screw, cut off the head, file away roughness… Paul
First, what kind of template will you use and how deep a fin are you gonna > make? Mahogany is always a good choice; it has good grain characteristics > and laminates well. A piece of marine grade Afrian mahongany might be a > good ticket and would save alot of work. If you laminate yourself the more > epoxy laminations the stronger it will be but that’ll make it heavier too. > Make sure all your hardware is stainless. I’d stay away from plastic > screws myself but do what you think best. Oh, make sure the base is > laminated well into the fin so the tab doesn’t shear off.>>> Best, Rich Thanks for the response Rich. What I want to do initially is create some shadow boxes (fins mounted in a deep frame with descriptions underneath) for my office – one way to keep sane in Corp. America. I’ve admired Jensens fins and skateboards – his work is what stoked the muse. I plan on mounting them around a trio of Glen Martin prints that I enjoy looking at… I also want to create functionally sound fins for personal use. I was planning on using 6 oz. and poly resin for the laminate job, can you share why you made the epoxy comment? I am truly a neophyte at this so any and all input is appreciated. I am also not clear on the last comment: “Oh, make sure the base is laminated well into the fin so the tab doesn’t shear off.” Does this mean that the wood should extend to the bottom of the fin base or does it mean that the base should be fiberglass and resin only? Thanks for the Larry Block tip. I have spoken with him a couple of times and he is a stand-up guy. I encourage anyone to use Block enterprises whenever I am asked. By the way Rich what are your fins made of? I looked for a website for Halcyon fins but I was unsuccessful. Thanks again for the response, Magoo
I’m by no means a fin master. I have had some success however with a core > fiberglass laminate (10 layers or so of 6 oz.) sandwiched between a layer > of wood on each side. When foiled, you have a “bead” of glass > surrounding the fin. Laminate some more cloth (4 layers +/-) on each side, > hot coat, sand and gloss and you’ll hopefully have a nice wood grain fin > with a protective glass edge. For a box fin, stop the wood above the base > area and add some cloth for proper thickness to fit the slot. John, Very descriptive, thank you very much! Quick ones for ya: How do you ensure that wood is centered on the middle core? Do you sandwich the core prior to the resin kicking or do you allow to kick, sand, apply etc…? Is the wood and the core the same size (thus ensuring uniformity)? What thickness is the wood that you use, and what kind of wood have you found to give an aesthetically pleasing appearance? Thanks again, this is very helpful. Magoo
Wooden fin questions:>>> 1.What type of wood do you use for the core? …9 ply 1/2" baltic > birch plywood or solid wood…Plywood for easy foiling…solid for > aesthetic’s…>>> 2.What width do you start with and how many layers of glass is standard? > …If it’s a plywood fin, I’ll put an 1/8" fiberglass core in between > the 1/2" sides…After the glass sets up, cut out the fin template, > rough sand the profile, foil with a 4" grinder with a 36 grit disc, > hand sand to 100 grit…Glass each side with 2 layers of 6 oz…If the > fin is thicker than 3/8" I put the pin at the rear edge of the > fin…The tab that has the screw hole is solid glass roving that I extend > into the base of the fin (the part that is inside the fin box)…That’s a > simplified description of how I make some of my fins…>>> 3.If you are making a fin composed of several woods (like Pauls’ 11" > Big Fin of Mahogany & Alaskan Yellow Cedar) what process do you use to > bind the woods together? …Elmers yellow glue…If the fin has curves > wood panels use curved glue…(just kidding)…>>> 4.Do you glue blocks of wood together and then bandsaw off many thin > layers of the composite? …I’ll cut tapered 3/4’ thick redwood and > Alaskan cedar wedges on my table saw, glue them together on a scrap piece > of plwood (with paper on the plywood to prevent the fin panel being glued > to the plywood)…After the panel is glued and dried, I’ll scape the > excess glue, the belt sand it flat…Then I cut the fin profile from the > panel…To get the right thickness I cut the fin vertically on my table > saw (THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS, IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, DON’T > !!!)If I’m making a “rising sun” fin, I like to put a disc of > redwood at the “heart of the sun”…I’ll use a hole saw to drill > it from some scrap redwood, then carefully trace it on the fin, the cut it > out with a scroll saw, then glue it…Foiling and glassing is similar to > what I described above…>>> 5.What size pin do you use to hold in the front of the fin in the box and > where do you get the hardware to screw in the the backside of the fins? > …I use 8/32 stainless steel screws for pins…Drill a tight pilot > hole,screw in the screw, cut off the head, file away roughness…>>> Paul Paul, Wow, talk about exceeding my expectations! I read the other posts and asked additional questions in the order of response – hence I got to your post last. Thank you very much for the excellent descriptive explanations. Maybe after a few hundred attempts I will post something close to what you create. Magoo
Thanks for the response Rich.>>> What I want to do initially is create some shadow boxes (fins mounted in a > deep frame with descriptions underneath) for my office – one way to keep > sane in Corp. America. I’ve admired Jensens fins and skateboards – his > work is what stoked the muse. I plan on mounting them around a trio of > Glen Martin prints that I enjoy looking at…>>> I also want to create functionally sound fins for personal use. I was > planning on using 6 oz. and poly resin for the laminate job, can you share > why you made the epoxy comment? I am truly a neophyte at this so any and > all input is appreciated. I am also not clear on the last comment:>>> “Oh, make sure the base is laminated well into the fin so the tab > doesn’t shear off.”>>> Does this mean that the wood should extend to the bottom of the fin base > or does it mean that the base should be fiberglass and resin only? Thanks > for the Larry Block tip. I have spoken with him a couple of times and he > is a stand-up guy. I encourage anyone to use Block enterprises whenever I > am asked.>>> By the way Rich what are your fins made of? I looked for a website for > Halcyon fins but I was unsuccessful. Thanks again for the response,>>> Magoo Hey Magoo, I’ll make it real simple. As far as wood fins are concerned. Putting a fiberglass core spine in them is the way to insure the kind of strength you need, and yes I think the tap should be a solid lamination. To my mind wood is used more for cosmetic reasons that any other. So just take you pick and go for it. I think something with a real tight vertical grain would look great. However if you looking for performance wood is the last material I’d choose. Why epoxy? Well, it’s stronger and more flexible than polyester. It’s also a hell of alot trickier to work with. I don’t have a web sight.(Still in the research and developement stages. I’m strictly a one man operation until someone comes along that sees what I’m doing is cutting edge. The template is one I developed some time ago and nobody else is manufacturing one like it. My “Halcyon” fins have an epoxy carbon fiber spine. The body is a “true”(no flat spots on the sides) foiled high density foam. The shell is epoxy laminate and the finish is ploy. I use cloth lay ups,pigments and pin stripping, to dress them up. Believe or not they weigh about 40% of what a standard glass fin weighs. I also have a idea of putting a cavity in the center of the fin to lighten it up even more; after surfboard performance boils down to two things, form and lightness. As long as it keep raining forget it because it’s a shade-tree operation right now. Hope I’ve been of some help good luck with your project. Good Surfin’, Rich
John, How do you ensure that wood is centered on the middle core? Do you sandwich the core prior to the resin kicking or do you allow to kick, sand, apply etc…? I cut out an oversize fin template from the glass panel and laminate to both pieces of wood with laminating resin (epoxy or urethane glue would probably work) - cut the wood to the fin template and align the edges as best you can - it’s still pretty rough at this point anyway. I use a cinder block or something to weight it down as it cures. Recutting on a bandsaw or using a surform works pretty good for cleaning up the edges. Is the wood and the core the same size (thus ensuring uniformity)? What thickness is the wood that you use, and what kind of wood have you found to give an aesthetically pleasing appearance? I don’t really use a formula - after foiling, the glass panel leaves a nice edge around the wood. Pigment can be added to the resin before you lay up the glass panel. I think a contrast between the wood and border looks nice. I try and avoid a perfectly vertical grain. I think it looks better angled back. Its also pretty easy to glue contrasting wood strips for stripes, etc. Thickness and wood types are really up to you. For a box fin with the screw and roll pin holes, wood is pretty vulnerable to moisture penetration. In that case, I just leave out wood from those areas and add extra cloth. Make sure you don’t leave unsealed edges as they will surely suck water.