been busy..

General Discussion
1

took 7 days off to entertain my sister and niece who flew in from malaysia

I managed to squeeze in finishing off a bunch of pending projects by sanding during the day and glassing and glossing at night in between all the tourist guide stuff

probably worked harder on vacation than I do working…

Results of finally getting 7 weekdays off

the two “veneered” donation boards started out like this…

then this

and ended up after much heart ache later as this…

koa/tineo

I call this the “x-files black oil project”

as the black posca hides the sand thrus on the maple veneer

maple/tineo

used gold flake to hide them on the other side

major probox filler issues to fix too

bottomline,as beautiful as it is I hate working with hardwood veneers on surfboards

rode and dinged this already closing my SUV hatch on the nose

the blue cedar quad although heavy rode really well in anything over chest high

you can see the poplar running down the middle of the deck as a springer

a little new zealand mana added to this one

even rerailed this beast

cut off 1.5 inches off each rail

replace with a single 1 inch band of blue and reshaped.

got me a “bert bump” now

ays use inserts as pro-box support for EPS or be prepared to lose alot of fins

lost half of an FCS MR twin set after my first big bottom turn riding this as a quad

someone say rail shots?

full downrail on the tomlinson design APS cut PU skinned in bamboo and balsa

softer on the flyers. I like these old school softer but “pinched” rails

excuse the band…

God I’m so glad to be back at work again now…

2

Busy!!! Don’t you sleep when you are on holiday? Thanks for the pics, really like the outlines of the pintail and the quad. Your rails look great. Which one did you put those fuller, soft ones on? Glad to see you getting so much done (board building that is)

3

hi bernie

i like the rounded pin and the quad

i hada think about using veneers before

i would stick the veneers to the dyvinicell while the sheets are still flat with contact adhesive

or perhaps gorilla glue

then stick the whole skin on the board

is that how you did it?

4

When I did it on my first board two years ago I super77’d walnut to 4" strips of balsa then bagged on the balsa

bad idea as the walnut lifted off the balsa after bagging.

On my second attempt I dry vacuumed madrone over a glassed PU using veneer softener to develop the rail wrap and then epoxied the veneer to the sanded down PU. Veneer still cracked and lifted in spots after bagging.

On this latest attempt realizing that with veneer I needed a rocked solid and smooth substrate surface, I first bagged on a layer of the 1mm woven bamboo then laid on a layer of dark brown tinted Qcell epoxy paste and sanded the whole surface down super smooth. Then we bagged on the veneer using gorilla glue and epoxy. In both cased for one reason or another we got bubbles from the glue and lifting along the seams which all had to be spot reglued using a hypodermic with glue or CA after slicing into the bubbles using a razor. Needeless to say it was a lot of unneeded work just to get a “different look”. I could’ve left them both as bamboo skinned boards and they would’ve been lighter and easier to finish. The boards are heavy with all thase layers including a gloss coat but no heavier than a volan glassed PU in the same size.

Sometimes it feels like you’re just banging your head against a rock wall over and over again

one thing about these veneers is that they suck up what ever you use to glue them and then get real brittle and crack or lift off the substrate even after vacuum bagging. Worst of all you can sand any of it cause it’s only 1/42" thick. I think Dcell would compound the “sucking” problem. Been thinking of bagging the veneers between two layers of 2oz glass to build a stronger composite skin of veneer but have been wondering if I have to sand it for some reason or another. another option would be to bag on the outside glass at the same time using mylar to create a final gloss coat skin when you bag them on assuming you can get the surface perfectly smooth.

This veneer stuff is so much harder than just using balsa or the single sheets of the bamboo as skins. Even these solid wood and wood/cork rails are an extended pain now that we’ve tried bending single bands of corecell and blue. They shape better too…

As far as rails, we really have been leaning to those classic old style “D” shaped rails with a little more vertical on the bottom 1/3 and a definite 1/4" tucked in shape edge running along the bottom which is something we learned from Griff. All those boards other than the pintail which is sharp railed all the way around starts off soft and develops this hard tucked rail just before the half point becoming a very vertical sharp rail edged a “JC shaka” sign in front of the forward fins and back thru the tail.

oh by the way

I’m glossing all these epoxies with thick layer (16oz per 6’8") of PU finishing resin using Kokua’s formula of styrene and wax additive. I try and build as thick a layer as possible doing it at night after sunset and letting it drip off then power sanding the gloss down starting at 220 up to 2000(Festools platin) getting as flat a layer and smooth a finish as possible before buffing. I don’t think you can get a glass like finish as bright and deep just using epoxy unless you bag on your exterior glass using mylar. I’m not so concerned about weight anymore. If I am I’ll use Herb’s spar urethane solution sprayed over the epoxy.(thanks Herb)

5

JIB

just like Bert

6

I can’t think of a better vacation than fininishing a bunch of boards. I mean, you already live in one of the most beautiful places with some of the best surf in the world! Thanks for sharing. Mike

7

Yeah you have…

Thanks for all the experimenting and sharing. It’s a great resource for us newbies.

I’m just wondering why you aren’t concerned about weight anymore? I made that 8-0 fun gun that came out heavy and surfs great, so I kind of feel less stressed about getting light weights. The 8-0 gets down the face at PV Cove (a thick slopey wave) where my lighter shortboards never could. It also turns well. I’m thinking swing weight and momentum.

8

Well first of those fancy donation boards were meant to be semi wall hangers that can still be surfed so the veneer was applied on after the board structure was basically built like Yater/Ancell was doing with their shell overlay surftechs. Instead of dcell I built the skin with the bamboo weave but the weight effect was the same.

as far as weight goes

personally I feel it’s over rated in comparison to “hull displacement”

the blue and white trapped gas cores will sit higher versus PU depending on the volume distribution of the profile

so shape and thickness profile will be more important than overall all weight

ultra floaty and ultra light only seems to want to bob up and down instead of maintaining forward momentum.

and like Greg said you have to make an adjustment to your surfing with the jiggle jiggles to make them work.

I guess if you design correctly for the materials used you can make anything work but it takes alot of experimenting to get there.

this is just a personal observation but

Light seems good for throwing these things around like today’s groms who more interested in making 1000 “contest manuveurs” surfing in one place while 10 other guys drop in on them down the line. Light boards are also good for boosting, hopping or spinning your tail out off your front foot to skate or snowboard a wave . Most groms don’t seem to be interested in surfing with power until they notice the growing effects on their midsection of all the beers they sample or they start to grow out of their skinny surfer chicken legs…

I think the lightness craze is a reflection of the change in style away from power surfing big lines to todays manuveur-based cover shot surfing. It’s just a different preference neither good or bad but I’m an old fart anyway so heavier boards for cosmic children styled surfers over 50 probably make more sense… I like feeling like my board is doing some of the work out there…

9

awesome bernie !!

i was wondering what you’d been up to lately [pays to look through the ‘pages’ of sways sometimes …i missed this , the first time round

cheers

ben

[now if you want to pm me your address , i’ll send you some fins if you like ? cheers mate !]

10

your post #8 was very well put…good laughs…

board weight is a design variable.

congrats on them boards…beautiful work.

PS - TCurren is still the power/style std…thats the way it should be done