Ben Rasmussen of LBI, Wooden Board, and Riding a Thruster as a Twin + Trailer

I only see one  poorly focused photo.

 

If those white patches over the knot are not reflections of light, but actual white spots, then the fiberlass has peeled off the knots.  Such areas in the cedar can either be very thirsty, or actually resistant to absorbing epoxy.  They can also be also a weak spot.

 

If you tap it lightly with a fingernail if delaminated it will make a tick tick sound rather than more of a thud.  

 

Look extremely closely with magnification at the brad hole.  I think it is a possibility that water is not getting below the glass right there, but perhaps could be getting inside elsewhere and then wetting the cedar from the inside.  The O ring on the thumbscrew vent, can seal poorly if it gets sandy, and at 20 years of age likely needs replacement anyway.

 

You can blow air inside the board, slightly pressurizing it, and while holding it pressurized, spray some soapy water over any suspected leaky areas, if it blows bubbles, bingo. A procedure  likely requiring a helper. 

You’ll have to attach much better pics.

 

When I glassed those first three boards in Ben’s dad’s garage in Loveladies december 2002, my other friend’s board I sanded first, and then wetsanded it, before adding the final layer of epoxy.  This board had lots of little white flecks in the glass where wetsanded, which saddened me greatly.  My 6’8" and Ben’s 9’6" longboard therefore did not get wetsanded before having another coat of epoxy applied and did not have such issues.

 

It’s possible those flecks were there from the day it was glassed, but again I’d need much better photos, and would still be relying on a memory of specks/flecks from 19 years ago for comparison.

 

Any suspected leaky areas can simply have a layer of epoxy painted atop, but cracked fiberglass might need fiberglass atop. Minor Ding repairs are largely the same as regular ding repairs but need epoxy, not polyester resin. They are just more obvious on dark wood than unpainted foam.

Gotcha-- I suspect it’s a little delamination bubble over the knot, based on the feel/sound. So a better way of phrasing my question then is: alongside patching up any leaky areas and replacing the o-ring on the vent, do I need to address that delamination to prevent further harm and keep the board watertight?

 

 

That Delaminated part, might still be water tight.  If so, expecting it to remain so, is unwise.

 

The wood in that area could be more susceptible to impact, and perhaps even the pressure of surfing the board could have caused the wood inside to be pushed in slightly, and the glass pulled off.

 

Micro drill bits and a hypodermic needle injecting superglue might help it to disappear and reseal it.

If that were my board I’d likely confine the area with tape and use a dremel to remove the delam’d glass and reglass it, and I bet the perimeters of the repair would forever remain visible, and if the wood itself is weak then it will remain so without being reinforced from within.

Get it in a good light and press on it and see how much the reflection moves, See if the wood below is indeed soft.

 

Just checked: the wood is good & hard as rock, thankfully.

So still: hypodermic injections of superglue or epoxy may be wise huh?

Cheers again.

Will wonders never cease…

Finally got around to the ding repair, came out fine…

but the vent plug screw is nowhere to be found! I suspect it was lost in transit. Super bummed.

Looks like the vent plug is 1", interior hole is 1/2", but of course I don’t know the screw thread size…

Anyone have leads on a replacement? Greenlight isn’t looking too promising…

Thanks again. She’ll be seaworthy again someday!

I’ve not done it with something large but you could drive it to hardware store, tell them what you are doing, and just run in and out w/ samples until you find one that’s the right fit.

http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/SurfSailcom/surfsailcom.html

 

scroll down to 

R62-5150

Vent Thumb Screw,  with O Ring

 

They don’t show the picture of it.

 

or 

https://www.theshapingshack.com/vent-thumb-screw-with-o-ring/

 

Got a couple more pictures of vent and thumbscrew in this thread

https://www.swaylocks.com/forum/82666/six-eleven-number-7-cedar-hws-build?page=1

 

 

Perfect, thank you!

if its approx. 1/2" it may be m12. M12x1.5 (metric) is the thread of goretex vents. If there are no other obstacles, like optics etc., I would recommend getting one of those. I have only good experiences with them; once installed 

Cool, thank you. Would the Goretex vent (which I believe are auto-venting) work here, in a vent that was designed for a screw plug? In other words, could I just screw that in and leave it to autovent?

To me, it appears the thread pitch of the non venting thumb screws, is much coarser than the Envision breatheable vent.

 

I very much like the idea of a fail safe vent, and have contemplated making a sail safe thumbscrew vent.

I took one of Ben’s first HWS’s made of marine plywood with pine frame, to  the tip of Baja and back to NJ summer of 2002, and before heading down I wanted to add some edge to the tail of the board.  It was a ~ 7’2" singlefin, but had a soft egg rail around the tail, and I had his permission to add some edge to the tail.

 

A so called ‘friend’ was observing this process, while I had the board outside on a cloudy day, but was working on another.  He asked about the vent and I explained it always needed to remain open so the board could breathe to allow for air expansion and contraction as temperature changed.

 

The freaking halfwit closed the vent really cranking it down, unknownst to me.  The sun came out, and it sounded like someone pried apart a split 2x4, then dropped it  from 8 feet up and it landed flat.  I look over than the board is rocking and the hull  is bloated like a belly.  The pine stringers which had been drilled to lighten, had split.

 

I wound up routing out the hull, epoxying the split stringers back together, and fitting in a new piece of marine plywood and re hotcoating the entire hull, adding my edge.  Tons of work.

Surfed the shit out of it in Baja and gave it back to Ben shortly before helping him build a 9’6", then building my first 6’8".  It’s likely floating around NJ somewhere.

I have no experience with the gortex vents.  I have my doubts that they can move enough air when a cold board and air within is moved to a hot enviroment with sun shining on it. I think they are more designed for a foam board with a lot less potential air volume inside.

 

While venting pressure within the board is more paramount than when there is a slight vacuum, A hot board taken into cool water will cause a slight vacuum to form.  The breatheable vent will likely have a layer of water in it that the air is supposed to travel through?

When I take a hot board into the cold ocean, I will open the vent several times, and my 9’7" longboard will suck in so much air it is a bit mind boggling.  I have enough time to fully unthread the vent, remove it, wait for it to stop sucking in air for about 3 seconds, then return the vent.   If I just loosen the vent a bit and allow it to suck air for as long as needed, often I see a set approaching before it is done and have to tighten it then go chase it down.

 There is a possibility of losing the O ring removing the vent.  I always loosen the vent on exiting the water, as when it is acclimitized to 62f water and gets put in 80f air with sun hitting it, the volume of the air increases quickly, significantly, and pressure would build up quickly.

 

I  allow air into the cooling board when surfing, as any microholes in the glass job or new dings, would be more forcefully sucking in the water otherwise.

 

When there is danger of some  halfwit closing off the vent, as if they are doing me a favor or something, I now remove the vent entirely.

Never underestimate the stupidity/ignorance/narcissism of your fellow human.

 

Both surfers and Non surfers alike feel the need to touch and fondle the board, and the vent, and turn it. 

Invariably they tighten it, when the only time it should be closed is when surfing it.

Search a few supply sites like Foam EZ, Surf Source etc for the Casica Goretex Vent.  Should be a pic or two on those sites.  Probably the same.  I have never used a vent on a board so don’t know for sure.

Because guessing sucks,

 

I just went and busted out a thumbscrew and my digital calipers.

 

Measuring the thickness of the threaded portion including the threads it is exactly 3/8"

Measuring the thickness of the threaded portion NOT including the threads it is exactly 5/16"

 

Setting my calipers to exactly 1/4", I count exactly 5 threads, 

 

so I would say it is a 3/8"  20 teeth per inch thread, and it is certainly not a metric thread

1/2" = 12.7mm.

 

Perhaps it could be tapped for the Casica/amphenol   m12 1.5  gortex vent, but I dont feel 40ml per minute is enough to deal with rapid temperature changes, though of course is better than a perfect seal.

 

I might look into modifying a casica threaded portion and tapping it for the 3/8-20 thread size and making it thumb screwable. as some added safety.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/amphenol-ltw-technology-co.,-ltd/VENT-PS1YBK-N8001/7898285?utm_adgroup=Box%20Accessories&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_Product_Boxes%2C%20Enclosures%2C%20Racks_NEW&utm_term=&utm_content=Box%20Accessories&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9_n6r-eF7wIVAbyGCh1deAByEAQYASABEgLC6PD_BwE

 

 

 

 

One thing I like about a non venting thumbscrew is if I open it and no air comes in or out, it means one of two things, either there has been no temperature difference since the vent was closed, or the hull integrity  has been compromised.

 

 

 




Guessing does suck-- and I appreciate this research and precision, thank you.

Of course in my haste to resolve this, I ordered a plug from Chinook Sailing this morning-- looks identical to the r62-5150 mentioned above but I guess we’ll see. Either way we now have the invaluable measurements!

I know the Vents ben used and provided for my first 6’8", were flanged, and the plug without the thumbscrew would sit about 3/16 above the surrounding deck.

 

When I made my first HWS after the one I made in Ben’s workshop, Fiberglass supplydotcom had the flush mounting/ non flanged thumbscrew receptacles, and I ordered 10 pairs of them, then.

 

The thumb grab portion is still raised, and if one sands down the top of the flush mounted plug during the shaping process, then there is an even  larger gap between the thumbscrew and the receptacle in the board.

 

Ideally I’d want the thumb portions touching the deck at the same time the O ring is compressed enough, instead of raised 0.5mm or more above.

 

I like to mount the vents as far towards the nose as possible to assist draining should water get inside.  The vent plugs themselves are like a giant  hairy wart on the nose of a supermodel, but oh well.

The pics of the thumbscrews above, one of them I shortened the threaded portion as it was for a thin nosed board.  One of them also spent a year or more in the dirt in Baja, and I found it on a subsequent trip camped in the same spot…

 

It’s good to have extras.

3/8-20 is an uncommon thread pitch, compared to 3/8-16.  It made me go back and recount the threads and take a better picture.

Which makes it less likely I’ll acquire an amphenol connector and try and rethread it for 3/8-20 and get the O ring to seal properly in existing plug.

 

I don’t mind the Brass insert  with 1/4-20 internal threads that I installed in the tail of my latest hws, for cross ventilation, nearly as much.

I think I’d design some sort of flush mount for the goretex amphenol vent, with some thumbscrew design added, if I were to make another HWS, but I have no such plans to do so.

 

The Amphenol takes a 16mm hex and needs a 17mm or larger hole to be recessed and allow the head to  sit flush or lower.  The thumbscrew receptacle on Bens’ and my boards, would not accept this.

 

So I’m going to stop thinking about attempting to get a goretex vent into the existing thumbscrew receptacle.

 

Ignore the O-rings in the center photo, they are from/for the O ring on my transmission dipstick tube and are 3/4" outer diameter, and were inside the  digital caliper’s case.

 

 

 



Just for your information, I’m using Goretex Polyvent “High Airflow” which allow for 4000ml/min or 40l/min Airflow. I got them from a company in Europe at about 8$ each. 

This link refers to a official goretex brochure, so they should be availlabe in the US too.

https://www.distrelec.de/Web/Downloads/_t/ds/WLGore_ScrewIn_Vents_eng_tds.pdf the vent I use is the first on the third page…

 

By now I installed them in three board and they never failed, but my experience is limited, the oldest board is 3 years and is not used more than 25 days, because I’am a vacation only surfer. I used homemade screw vents before which I forget to close two times before entering the water… :frowning: