I’m very intregeed with your setup and was wondering if you have to adjust the outer blockings as you add on more strips, or dose it work its self out.
Also, how much rail do you add on. For my first HWS I added 2" of rail, but I dont think it was quite enough.
Cheers.
I’m not going to finish before my trip 
The rails were just too much work.
Personally I would recommend lots of 5 minute epoxy and perhaps thinner balsa sheets than I was using. Doing the bends is just hellish and I wasn’t going all the way to the nose or around the tail. Started to run out of 5 minute epoxy and started using RR which takes quite a while to set up.
With thin sheets that can do the bends and 5 minute epoxy I don’t see much problem. 5 minutes is not long at all and the biggest problem I was having was having to cut boards shorter so that they would conform to the contours. 1/4" is just too stiff to do much bending. I think I’d rather hold four 1/16" pieces for 5 minutes than try to make 1 1/4" sheet do any kind of short range bend. Pretty sure I have fast hardener for my RR but that’s still 30 mintues? An hour. Too tired to look it up atm.
Well now I have more time to work on it when I get back.
thought about it for a day or so and the bead and cove aquired from a miller could be an alterntive to gettin the bits
and cedar rails 1/2’’
after stacking could leave plenny volume for contour after the glue
and the plotted curve still might save a little wood weight/waste
seing as how the double bend on the jensen band method may also be difficult although I can easily concieve 1/8 strips especially with the vacum
app…
lotsa other stuff to do before I can do that…
any how…
stretchinh the brain in the middle of the nite
3:49 waipouli time…
…ambrose…
Some guy who is into scale models building suggested to soak balsa in liquid ammonia on Shaperoom.net recently. He says it works quite good. I didn’t try it yet, though. And I suggest you wear a mask if you ever try that. Any one can back up this trick?
I found references to use of ammonia in bending, but they seem to refer to use of anhydrous NH3, not the common household cleaning solution. Since the possible side-effects include one’s face falling off, I think I’ll pass (mine ain’t pretty, but I prefer to remain attached to it…)
http://www.joelwoodworks.com/index_files/page0111.htm
-Samiam
If you trace and cut your rocker profile, then glue it on to the outline of your foam, wouldn’t it come up short? The rocker profile is flat and if you measured it, say, 6’-0" tip to tip. Then measured your rail line around the blank, wouldn’t it measure, say, 6’-1" or so? Random numbers. I can see that people are doing it, I just don’t understand it. Does the nose block and tail block save your bacon? I need some help figuring this out, the last rail build up was by far the most difficult part of the compsand experience.
Does it come up short?
WM
I’ve been wondering the same thing.
Daklaw: What about the ole glue and CA trick from your thread? Would that work in this scenario rather than taping or clamping or bagging?
after you square off your rails, trace the rail profile onto butcher or banner paper using pins or thinbtacks to hold it in place and then use that template to cut out your rail bands.
Or you can use the rocker template and extend it out on the nose and tail by the length of the rail outline measured with a sewing tape measure.
for bending you can blow torch it wet bending as you go liek my brother favors for 1/4"
or use a bending iron like this used by music instrument makers:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Bending_sides/Bending_Iron.html
or a high pressure steamer like that described or the kind used to remove paint and wallpaper from walls
Unless you counter brace like what woodogre showed or a vacuum setup you should always plan on some amount of snap back.
That’s why interlayered wood/cork rails work out nicely to give you the added thickness without all the bending nightmares.
Paul Jensen and Daniel Hess seem to like to use cork on the rail as well…
Once you get the first layer on to the foam somehow the rest will go quickly with CA glue or 30 sec epoxy.
Hey Hunter,
The Ol’ CA glue trick should work but I have never tried it on 1/4 inch. I don’t know the bending tolerances of 1/4. The toughest part is getting that first layer on the foam. It seems from Wood Ogre’s pics that the 1/4 bends quite a bit. But I don’t know if that’s because its saturated with epoxy. HTH.
Cheers,
Rio
Thanks Rio. I’ve got some 3/16ths which I was hoping to use the CA method on. It has bent well for me in the past just using tape so I’ll give it a go. My plan keeps changing. Nothing like overthinking and not just doing, hehe.
hey dudes this is how i do rails sometimes
its easy and takes less than an hour
ive got a secret jig system method now for speeding up things (which i cant show)
but this way works is easy and i still use it from time to time
hey paul
were those japanese washi paper covered fins foam core or wood core?
I bought enough of that stuff from the local craft store to fully cover 3-4 projects $14 buys enough to cover 3’ of board
I tried it on some foam quad keels without alot of success because of the need for a fore and aft glass bead.
I guess wood would work better or like uncle-d did with his plexiglass centers.
I see you are a proponent of small sections versus a long single band for the entire rail…
The tighter the curve
the smaller the segment used?
and you’re right
jigs are the answer
woodogre, daniel hess and bert are jigged out I’m sure.
I’m always envisioned a fully adjustable metal/acrylic rocker table with predrilled holes so dowels orr metal posts could be inserted and used to compress the railbands to foam or hold inplace the skeleton and rail of a HWS.
I was thinking A 1/4"-1/2" thick sheet of 1/16"-1/8" alternating balsa/cork sandwich panels would be pliable enough to bend as an entire rail band but like Bert said on his original post there’s a bit of waste unless you’re reproducing the same rail. Which actually isn’t bad if you’re sticking to the same design in your hunt for perfection. 1"-2" of H80 Corecell outside of a balsa perimeter isn’t a bad option either.
Hopefully by Xmas we’ll have fixed up, cleaned up and sold our 58’ Austin Healy 3000 and get half the garage as a work area to setup a real wood shop and get back in the game again next year.
But that’s hoping…
back to reality now…
My method is like Marke’s- I just use masking tape- inexpensive and simple.
However, I did all 6 layers in one shot- 3 layers of 3/16" balsa and 3 layers of 1/4" cork. I rolled the epoxy on the pieces with a 3" paint roller, taped each layer down in 3 spots. After I had all layers on I put tape everywhere to pull down any gaps. It came out close to perfect. I had to reshape with a power planer because I left a lot of excess as you can see.
Next time I may put the whole shebang in a vac bag like Yoshio just to suck it down a little more and maybe get excess resin out.
Hopefully by Xmas we’ll have fixed up, cleaned up and sold our 58’ Austin Healy 3000 and get half the garage as a work area to setup a real wood shop and get back in the game again next year.
But that’s hoping…
back to reality now…
Best thing I’ve read on here in a while 
I’ve missed your contributions…
I’ve attached rails all of the above ways. Now I either bag like Yoshio or use the offcuts from templating as clamps.
I did quite a few with the tape but found that its impossible to stretch & stick each piece of tape with even pressure & the resulting wobbles were more than I was happy with.
hey bernie
they were plywood
looked really nice actually
i think i vaced em on actually cant remember
that small 2 inch wide sections without tape is easy and no waste of tape.
get the 3mm thick sections as long as managble.(short pieces are harder to bend around a tight curve)
if they get to long they cant be pressed down with hand pressure easily
also its a bit hard to do it on a round nose, but a shortboards pretty easy
basically i can set the watch to the time my 5 min epoxy kicks
so i mix apply wait for 4 minutes then hold the rail in place for two minutes
i like the method because its simple and introduced me to a different approach in my thinking
which led to the simple eps stringer glueup (no clamps as well or tape)
which led to how im approaching building now( which is different again)
so its just a clue for the new guys really( the clue being you dont have to get overly complicated to get a good result)
if anyones keen to try it
i think a good quality contact adhesive would be the shit for this method
that way you wouldnt even have to hold it for long or perhaps super glue
i hit the ten hour mark on a shortboard a while back
and consider that far to long
i honestly believe i can build one in 7 hours
and within the next year with a bit more space it wont be a problem
i spend more time shuffling things around than actually building boards
i remember now how i did it
i think i glued the paper on first and trimmed to the edge of the fin
then wrapped the glass over the edges in the vac bag
didnt use the roving on the edges on that one
When masking tape just isn’t enough…
Filament Strapping Tape works well for those areas that require extra heavy tape pulling…
Filament Tape is available in multiple grades:
UTILITY GRADE: 98 lb. tensile strength. Recommended for light-duty applications. 3% elongation.
GENERAL GRADE: 131 lb. tensile strength. Excellent for box sealing, bundling and unitizing pallets. 3% elongation.
MEDIUM GRADE: 175 lb. tensile strength. A great multi-purpose tape. 4% elongation.
PREMIUM GRADE: 330 lb. tensile strength. Exceptional performance for any application. 5% elongation.
I have made lots and lots of compsand airplane wings, never made a compsand surfboard. What I do to make the leading edge, which can be laminated around eliptical curve like a surfboard rail is to first start with a sheet of 1/16" balsa. No need to wet it or steem it or amonia, whatever. It is thin enough to bend. This will be the first layer that will be attached to the foam. Use tightbond wood glue spread thin and eavenly across the whole length of the wood and the rail. guestamate the wood to be about 1/4" thicker than the rail. It is easiest to do this step with a few short pieces. This first layer produces a buffer zone for the foam because CA glue (which will be used later) will attack foam. Use masking tape at short and regular intervals to attach the balsa to the foam. when the glue dries, remove the tape and trim the wood flush with the top and bottom of the board. Each additional lamination can be either 1/8" or 3/16" balsa sheet. 1/4" is a bit on the thick side for bending. Try to use contest grade balsa, it is the lightest and easiest to bend. Use medium viscocity CA glue to to apply each additional lamination. Be sure to stagger all the seams. Apply the glue slowly in a zig zag pattern across the rail while immediatly following it with the wood. One hand on the glue bottle and the other pressing the wood down as you progress from front to back or vice versa. After the desired rail thickness is achieved, the rail can be carved, planed and sanded to shape. This method is quick and produces good results.