woops, I didn’t get into that one…
**Amen!**
**just look at the pro's it's go or blow, performance at a price!**
I hope all surfers start riding thinner boards. 240lbs @ 2.5", 175lbs @ 1.75"; and bring Sups down to 3". I’ll wave as I’m flying by!
Changing your religion can be a good thing depending on whats served up for communion. And holy days observed. Should you read from the book of Brewer? Or rely on the meditations of rely? Perhaps the wisdom of Morey is needed in this conversation. Be careful when dealing with the wisdom from the great Prophet Simmons. All Hail The great Red Fin so saith the Prophet Hynson.
I was so inspired after reading all bert’s posts back in 2004 I built one of his “magic carpets” in 2005.
I think it was like 6’2" x 24" x 1.75" EPS core with woven bamboo mat skins and foam core glass on quads
I’m 5’8 200lbs and the board still caught waves but paddled out pretty badly
I think I sat up to my upper chest underwater waiting for waves
the board actually rode okay but i just couldn’t handle the way it flexed
felt like i was gonna snap it with one hard turn
gave it away to a neighborhood kid as a gift.
I think he was like 150lbs
looks at what curren’s riding these days(tomo) and what slater is doing
tells me smaller and stubbier is the futire
but then Chris “wonton” Taloa showed us all that in the 90’s standup sturfing a morey sponge at backdoor and makaha with no fins
I think he’s like 6’1" 190
ya… I think it all depends. for some waves, some surfers, and some styles, more surface area and less volume works. Its a data point to compare two similar boards, not a proof of concept.
…lots of things to comment; some are:
-first what Marsh says is a thing to have in mind. (Plus Marsh always put Indonesia photos so they know how to ride)
2-this too much area and thin boards stuff is not so true in smaller PU boards. Do not have experience about it or a strong concept in larger boards except longboards, that in those design this way does not work.
3-It s true that you do not need gobs of meat in some cases, also when you are riding you can ride with little surface area like the tow in boards show. But you need all the other areas of the design to provide paddling power and take off, as the Guns to ride Mavericks or like that show.
4-108 Kilos…man, or you are a too tall guy or you should eat healthy in daily basis and excercise more.
5-that way you ll take all the waves in an easy way. This thing reminds me the Horses in the track and the jockeys or the track vintage bikes trying to lighten all type of things in the engine and frame, well, eat less and exercise more and will be the same without complications.
6-So the guy is super big so he needs a good wave or larger surf, of course a board that is not so wide does not work for him. He s catching good due he the larger arms stronger paddling and may be the smaller boards so the nose of the boards is closer to the chest and you can paddle like “without” a board (I do not know how to explain this correctly but Im into these designs right now)
7-leash and type of fin multi systems is way more important in the paddling equation than change abruptly a given design.
8-Yes, rounded full rails for the thinner foils
9- The foil is extremelly important, at least on the PU build, as I mentioned in the industry talk forum, a guy brought me a 6 7 that he surfed in Indonesia and the board lacks of proper foil, among other things, and the board was a Dog…yes, it s somewhat thin in the middle too.
10-I put more meat than the STD 2 1/4 in all the boards, however all tapered out to nose and tail and to the rails. My concept is the most smallest you can go the better, then you check how much area you need in relation of the platform choosed, the surfer, the waves and for what s the board will be build.
I always say here that build a Fish design bigger than 6 is not a fish and does not have any of the concept of the fish designs and you do not have any performance on those. This is something similar of what Burger says in his statement but again, very wide and thinner shortboards do not work ok, We all want to surf from the rails NOT from the bottom…sink or turn a wider board is not so good; of course worst if also that board has lot of meat… but the solution is not put a thin shape out there. We proved gobs of these things in the middle 90s…
9-This guy Bert Burger, and many others are prone to blahbling a lot for my taste, but they build a bunch of followers round the globe; the fact is I personally saw 4 of his boards in Tokyo and the boards do not have the feather weight he promoted in this forum for couple of years and the construction quality is…ok, but no more than that.
So in this internet world where we live all the marketing stuff could happen but the facts and the reality, also quality, if you are into this industry, are others.
“My concept is the most smallest you can go the better”
ah,.a worshipper of “The Smallest Board Possible” theology
I once followed that faith
several theologies ago, actually
these days I follow a theology called
“what Do I Feel Like Riding Today On these Particular Waves That Will Work the Best And Be The Most FUN”
the only downside to this theology I have discovered
is the need to drive a vehicle that can carry the quiver
irony?
…so may be we are talking the same…because when you are standing up on the board you really feel if the board is too long or do not…if you put too much emphasis on the prone position then, as you know, when you are riding the wave you see why all that excess of foam and exaggerated dims (except on longboards) are too much; then then fun beggins
edit: a bit of commedy is always good; however regarding that, I do not speak sentences and sentences or preach about design
I’ve already confirmed what he says on three builds of the same 6’4" template. You can banter all you want about if he is correct or not. I did the builds and my 2 1/4" thick board by far rode the best in anything from waist high to hurricane bombs. The 2 5/8" was a stiff dog and the 2 1/2" thick was ridable, but not as responsive as the thin board.
Following this with interest. Possibly topical: a few weeks back (3 boards?) I made a big-guy 6-8 step-up for myself, ~48L (I’m 210-215 lbs) with a concave deck, and after surfing it immediately wanted to make myself the same board without the concave deck. Reason: with my chest lower to the water, it was like I had brakes on paddling in flat water because the chop hit me in the chest and acted as a brake. It paddles into big, fast-moving waves like a badass machine, though. The balance between paddling around vs paddling into a wave is a really interesting question. Enjoying this discuss.
Me too. I don’t think Bert is wrong, but I do think there are shades of gray. Anything posted from Bert is worth a listen, IMO, but all the feedback from other thinkers is just as valuable. One of the things I like about surfboard design is that it isn’t pure science, its science, art, craft, and guesswork.
AMEN
Not to throw DNA on the fire, but if it was all about surface area and not about volume, wouldn’t we all be surfing alaias?
If it was all about volume, wouldn’t we all be riding 4" thick boards?
There are extremes on either end of the argument. As with everything in surfboards, you have to think in complete terms of the board and how the whole package works together. It usually doesn’t work out too well if you try and throw one element in without adjusting others accordingly.
Lawless, period, exclaimation mark. Belongs in the list of the “immutable laws of surfboard design”.
I also think Bert would totally agree with your remark. We all go off pontificating in a hyperbolic rant once in a while to make a point. Except me. Ha.
Hey wait a minute!!!
I’m riding a 4" thick board, hell, I’m riding a 4.625" thick board… Ha!
tO
Bet it’s a wave hog. Ha
Not sure - I’m not, save when I surf alone, and even then I’ve become more, shall we say, “selective,” in my middle age… Ha! Getting piched isn’t as fun as it used to be, and getting slammed on the rock reef/board/fins hurts more and longer than in years gone by…