Big Issue Out!

General Discussion
1

The August '07 Surfer Magazine is out now! Check out my letter to editor Chris Mauro on page 64 regarding the Chinese, Thilandese, and Vietnamese made surfboards. After a bit of discussion he agreed to print the whole un-edited letter with a lengthy response defending the magazines position.

If your opinion differs from that of Surfer Magazine and the big brands that are selling out our heritage and our future for short term profits, let Chris Mauro know directly at; Chris.Mauro@primedia.com

See ya in the water, Byron

http://www.myspace.com/byrondesign

All of these surfboards were hand made at the Basham factory in San Clemente, California.

384×512 20.5 KB

2

Good on you for writing the letter.

Good on them for printing it. Let’s see what the public says…

Mike

3

LOL,

You lil’ Sh#t stirrer you,Byron.

I love it.

4

Hey Byron,

I don’t get SM, any chance of whacking it up here for all to see?

5

This should be it;

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=320443;search_string=June%20%2707%20Surfer%20Magazine%20Article;#320443

Cheers, Byron

http://www.myspace.com/byrondesign

6

And they printed ALL of it!!!

If so, good on you and well done SM for printing it, hope it doesn’t affect their advertising…

7

Byron,

I’m really glad you did that. Thank you and thank you to Surfer for publishing it. It’s a problem way bigger than the surfing industry in the long term, but as far as surfers should be concerned, it’s a real problem now.

I read in the Atlantic that for every $1000 laptop sold, the Chinese manufacturers make about $100. So the money for high-tech stuff really is staying here, among the higher-paid workers and in coporate profits, primarily. But surfboards are not as complex as laptops and most consumers don’t know the difference between an OK surfboard and a good one. So the market shifts. The ramifications are huge, as you say, even though most might not notice it initially.

What really gets me is when economists and politicians try to explain that the advantage to all of this is that we get lots of cheap plastic crap cheaper. I don’t buy cheap plastic crap so I don’t care. I care about my wage slipping relative to my rent. So what if a DVD costs the same as a DVD player? It doesn’t make my life better.

So, again, good for you for bringing it up and I’m sure they’ll give you hell but that’s OK. They always will and they are covering their asses because you called them out (especially that loudmouth SOB Biolos). There’s a way out of this mess if we all keep thinking and, more importantly, act on our convictions.

C-Slug

8

Brilliant, I’m pretty new to this stuff but the premise is right. It comes up here all the time, surfers should develop a relationship with shapers to get the best possible board. The boring shapes and crap construction found in so many mass produced boards is an insult to dedicated surfers.

Problem is that many of the world’s surfers have more money than taste or sense and fall for the massive advertising power of the megacompanies. It is so hard to educate people to the fact that custom made is always better (well almost!).

9
Quote:

Brilliant, I’m pretty new to this stuff but the premise is right. It comes up here all the time, surfers should develop a relationship with shapers to get the best possible board. The boring shapes and crap construction found in so many mass produced boards is an insult to dedicated surfers.

Problem is that many of the world’s surfers have more money than taste or sense and fall for the massive advertising power of the megacompanies. It is so hard to educate people to the fact that custom made is always better (well almost!).

Most everyone here knows my position on popouts, but there another side that rarely gets mentioned. There is alot of custom made crap out there. There is alot of inconsistency in the hand made side of the industry and if you add to that a healthy amount of ego/attitude from more than a few shapers towards your begining or unskilled surfer it’s pretty clear certain segments decide to buy popouts. No hassle, no one pretending to be more worthy or cool than someone spending their money, and a consistent product.

When you put this with magazine lies and surf shop promotions you get pretty large group of people considering popouts or etc. Frankly…I see absolutely no difference in some traditional shapers putting stock shapes on machines and selling it as status quo state of the art and those guys are exactly who set the tone for the the imports to enter into the market. Without legitimate handshaping legends putting their stamp of approval on the junk it never would have surged to sucess the way it has. So… blaming the importers for making a buck is slightly misplaced. The real blame (if there is really any such thing as blame in this case) needs to be accurately pointed at those shapers who helped them out and those shapers who put out 4oz crap and sell lots of boards because of catchy magazine adds.

With many people if the choice is to continue struggling to pay bills with a fickle customer base or go to asia and put away some cash for awhile in already false and created market since it’s very begining…I guess the question becomes…who are we to decide what lifestyle certain shapers should have or whats more pure? If the customer chooses to simply walk into a shop and buy something that is the same every time who are we to tell them they are wrong? If asian factories with local help are taking advantage of an enviroment already created on mostly false hype by magzines and certain surfboard builders or surf companies who are we to tell them not to? I think the answers to these are at least something to consider before we go on about the purity of our art or our heritage.

10

Yeah Hicksy, they printed it all!

I had a big go-around with Chris Mauro regarding my E-mail, he was going to print an edited version in the mag. I told him no way. I sent it as a private E-mail to Chris Mauro, not as an open “letter to the editor”. I requested that he print the letter in it’s entirety or nothing at all. Bottom line is controversy sells, look at all the discussion it sparked here on Sway’s along with the Surfer and Surfing message boards.

Issues that are important to people will generate passionate debate. The issue of the big brands selling out our surfboard building heritage and future for short term profits while elliminating jobs and depressing the economy here in the US is very important to some of us. The fight will comtinue!

Byron

11
Quote:

Yeah Hicksy, they printed it all!

I had a big go-around with Chris Mauro regarding my E-mail, he was going to print an edited version in the mag. I told him no way. I sent it as a private E-mail to Chris Mauro, not as an open “letter to the editor”. I requested that he print the letter in it’s entirety or nothing at all. Bottom line is controversy sells, look at all the discussion it sparked here on Sway’s along with the Surfer and Surfing message boards.

Issues that are important to people will generate passionate debate. The issue of the big brands selling out our surfboard building heritage and future for short term profits while elliminating jobs and depressing the economy here in the US is very important to some of us. The fight will comtinue!

Byron

How about those shapers who stuck it to the consumer after Clark closed? Did those shapers help to sell out the surfboard building heritage? How many customers ended up on popouts because those guys stuck it to the customer because of a short term and overblown shortage?

12

It was a combination of the big brands and the large retail outlets that preyed upon the market situation in the wake of the Clark closure.

It will come back to bite them in their butts, in fact it already has. A couple of weeks back one of the larger San Diego chain of mega surf emporiums was heavily promting a huge weekend sale to unload overpriced invetory that has not been moving. Now there is SurfTech in Thailand, Plecebo in Vietnam, FireWire in China (?), Rusty’s new deal in China, and wherever the Burton/Channel Islands pop-out production will end up at. That’s alot of production for an already saturated market segment (the segment that don’t care where the board is from and are begginer start ups who-are suckered into buying the “new technology”). The custom segment that sells direct to surfers could actually see a big resurgence, and that’s what I’m pushing for.

Byron

13
Quote:

It was a combination of the big brands and the large retail outlets that preyed upon the market situation in the wake of the Clark closure.

It will come back to bite them in their butts, in fact it already has. A couple of weeks back one of the larger San Diego chain of mega surf emporiums was heavily promting a huge weekend sale to unload overpriced invetory that has not been moving. Now there is SurfTech in Thailand, Plecebo in Vietnam, FireWire in China (?), Rusty’s new deal in China, and wherever the Burton/Channel Islands pop-out production will end up at. That’s alot of production for an already saturated market segment (the segment that don’t care where the board is from and are begginer start ups who-are suckered into buying the “new technology”). The custom segment that sells direct to surfers could actually see a big resurgence, and that’s what I’m pushing for.

Byron

Amen…

14
Quote:

It was a combination of the big brands and the large retail outlets that preyed upon the market situation in the wake of the Clark closure.

The custom segment that sells direct to surfers could actually see a big resurgence, and that’s what I’m pushing for.

Byron

Hopefully this is what happens, I have spoken to a couple people in the industry who haven’t sold out and their attitude seems to be that it is what it is, and HOPEFULLY the guys who are buying the costco boards will someday actually get out in the water, get better and want better products and turn to the local shapers.

BUT, the PROBLEM could be that a LOT of people will NOT equate a board with an R-dot or Merrick on it with the pop outs and costco boards made in China. I other words, I could easily see a kid with a Merrick china board thumbing his nose at a Realm or CC, NOT understanding that his board suffers the same issues, he just doesn’t know it (yet). It might get to a point where if you ride ANY big brand (CI, Rusty, Lost, etc…) it may be “uncool” because of this. I remember when I was a kid, I ALWAYS wanted the smaller brands in San Clemente (ended up with an Infiniti by Senate and a Kaysen, btw, what ever happened to McElroy boards?) and always looked to the CI kids as sort of wannabees since they rode boards everyone else had. Maybe it will return to that?

15
Quote:
Quote:

It was a combination of the big brands and the large retail outlets that preyed upon the market situation in the wake of the Clark closure.

The custom segment that sells direct to surfers could actually see a big resurgence, and that’s what I’m pushing for.

Byron

Hopefully this is what happens, I have spoken to a couple people in the industry who haven’t sold out and their attitude seems to be that it is what it is, and HOPEFULLY the guys who are buying the costco boards will someday actually get out in the water, get better and want better products and turn to the local shapers.

BUT, the PROBLEM could be that a LOT of people will NOT equate a board with an R-dot or Merrick on it with the pop outs and costco boards made in China. I other words, I could easily see a kid with a Merrick china board thumbing his nose at a Realm or CC, NOT understanding that his board suffers the same issues, he just doesn’t know it (yet). It might get to a point where if you ride ANY big brand (CI, Rusty, Lost, etc…) it may be “uncool” because of this. I remember when I was a kid, I ALWAYS wanted the smaller brands in San Clemente (ended up with an Infiniti by Senate and a Kaysen, btw, what ever happened to McElroy boards?) and always looked to the CI kids as sort of wannabees since they rode boards everyone else had. Maybe it will return to that?

All the best handshapers I know have plenty of work. Why should the cosumer worry about the rest? In fact…why should it be a worry at all? Honest questions. Who gets to say whats cool or right? Why is heritage important? All honest questions that should be answered before proceeding with a solution. If one is needed.

16
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Who gets to say whats cool or right? Why is heritage important?

Ummmmmmm…ME. I get to decide what is cool, for me anyway. Still trying to sort it all out really.

Why is it “OK” to NOT buy American Home Stereo equipment anymore? Because it is more expensive? (btw, most my equip is either american or european, but it costs more money).

Why is it “OK” to wear clothing made in Asia? Price?

Why is it OK to buy a bicycle made from China/Tawain? (btw, my bikes are made in the USA, but you pay for it).

The list goes ON and ON. In reality, I think it is all what you are in to, and what you can afford, I can’t afford top of the line everything, so I don’t try. Heck, Surfing is my favorite sport, but there is NO way I am going to pay $1000 for a Pavel Speeddialer, when I can have someone like GH shape it and have it glassed for almost 1/2. Am I cheap? Maybe, but frankly I’d just rather buy more boards.

Part of it might have to do with quality (why I don’t by domestic cars, if there is such a thing) or what is available (I have a Honda CRF450 dirtbike, there aren’t any american dirt bike companies anymore).

I will admit to have a couple epoxy boards (I like the durability and travel factor) that I NOW KNOW where made is Asia (I didn’t use to know all this stuff) and even bought a used realm longboard from a buddy (I am not a longboarder, but on occasion my older buddies want to go out, and there was no way I was going to spend $1000 on a super nice longboard that I use a few times per year). Am I a “sell out”? Maybe, but I can admit that I am not really a “longboarder” anyway, and looking back on it and becoming so familiar with craigslist, if I were to do it all over again, I would buy used. I guess I would like it both ways (price AND quality).

So where do we draw the line as to what is accepted? Costco? Surftechs? Firewire? Major surfbrands made in asia? What about Aviso’s?? (Made in USA, but they are popouts and this doesn’t help the local shaper).

Unfortunately I don’t have all the answers, I am just glad that this thread was started and someone in the industry can really ask it and point out some of the hypocricy of guys like Merrick, Biolos. Rusty, et al…

17
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Who gets to say whats cool or right? Why is heritage important?

Ummmmmmm…ME. I get to decide what is cool, for me anyway. Still trying to sort it all out really.

Why is it “OK” to NOT buy American Home Stereo equipment anymore? Because it is more expensive? (btw, most my equip is either american or european, but it costs more money).

Why is it “OK” to wear clothing made in Asia? Price?

Why is it OK to buy a bicycle made from China/Tawain? (btw, my bikes are made in the USA, but you pay for it).

The list goes ON and ON. In reality, I think it is all what you are in to, and what you can afford, I can’t afford top of the line everything, so I don’t try. Heck, Surfing is my favorite sport, but there is NO way I am going to pay $1000 for a Pavel Speeddialer, when I can have someone like GH shape it and have it glassed for almost 1/2. Am I cheap? Maybe, but frankly I’d just rather buy more boards.

Part of it might have to do with quality (why I don’t by domestic cars, if there is such a thing) or what is available (I have a Honda CRF450 dirtbike, there aren’t any american dirt bike companies anymore).

I will admit to have a couple epoxy boards (I like the durability and travel factor) that I NOW KNOW where made is Asia (I didn’t use to know all this stuff) and even bought a used realm longboard from a buddy (I am not a longboarder, but on occasion my older buddies want to go out, and there was no way I was going to spend $1000 on a super nice longboard that I use a few times per year). Am I a “sell out”? Maybe, but I can admit that I am not really a “longboarder” anyway, and looking back on it and becoming so familiar with craigslist, if I were to do it all over again, I would buy used. I guess I would like it both ways (price AND quality).

So where do we draw the line as to what is accepted? Costco? Surftechs? Firewire? Major surfbrands made in asia? What about Aviso’s?? (Made in USA, but they are popouts and this doesn’t help the local shaper).

Unfortunately I don’t have all the answers, I am just glad that this thread was started and someone in the industry can really ask it and point out some of the hypocricy of guys like Merrick, Biolos. Rusty, et al…

Good points Rod. The fact is…many handshapers have been raping the surfing public with crap for years and no one seemed to call them sellouts or anything else. In fact the more like self centered jerks some acted the more guru status they seemed to garnish. Like everything in this life, there is no generalization. Every situation is different. We don’t need slogans in surfing anymore than we need them in our politics.

18
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

Good points Rod. The fact is…many handshapers have been raping the surfing public with crap for years and no one seemed to call them sellouts or anything else. In fact the more like self centered jerks some acted the more guru status they seemed to garnish. Like everything in this life, there is no generalization. Every situation is different. We don’t need slogans in surfing anymore than we need them in our politics.

Good points, this might be blasphemous to say but I would actually be willing to bet that the chinese/costco/sports chalet/play it again sports boards are better quality then a lot of local crap. This doesn’t mean that they are better than every local shaper, but I would bet they are better than some. Until now (or when clark went under) there didn’t seem to be a ton of motivation to be innovative with designs and materials, in fact I think a lot of guys got comfortable (look how long it takes you to get a board custom built). Hopefully the competition is good for the consumer in the end.

19

Good thing Byron!! Keep stirring the pot . . . I sit here with my crews in IT land realizing the ghz and highest ram and fastest ISP doesnt’ count for shat in the water.

But a damn good shape and time spent in the water does. Like I said before its great you’re doing what you’re doing.

Here’s one thing I found out, I’m still a student of surfing . . . and I made a board for myself, and realize hey I can make great boards for me!

So my next one is going to be made by me for me.

-Er decides to go unlimited and print letter for letter but a backtrack. which -Er put a ‘defense’ . . . I’m going to grab that mag this weekend.

They are looking for controversy … they are looking for sales. But maybe a few people will catch on . . . A friend of mine said

a person is smart, but people are stupid . . . goes with the sheep / mass quantity . . . falling for marketing schemes and false lies put as ‘truth’. Do I really need that $60 shoes that is made out of used and threaded canvas just because it was in the magazines? Or that fart pipe that seems to adorn many import rice rockets? No.

as a personal note I have found out sometimes the ‘sheep’ do know whats best as the masses can choose good stuff. Sometimes you have to nod at Johnny Rotten, but take your own path . . . still like Nirvana because it was good at the time and friends rocked out and the song stirs memories of good times with good people.

But my opinion is this pop out, go to manufacturing phase, will help cheapen surfboards but at the same time, could cause a loss of knowledge . . . by guys that really know how to make great boards . . .

and also my opinion was the crappy local shaper and someless less than distinct and good biz practice is what lead to the foothold for the Popout Consortium to establish their beach head . …

There isn’t any setup for a master - apprentice like other established fields (boat building etc) but its opening up after all I’m thankful for watching and learning from the best . . . and what Byron is trying to is help preserve that, sways has that, but also I’m noticing there is lot of junk you have to sift through, blind leading the blind kinda thing . . . anycase . . . I’m doing my part.

I can make my own boards. I like the sound of that.

Rally Ho!!

20
Quote:

They are looking for controversy … they are looking for sales. But maybe a few people will catch on . . . A friend of mine said

a person is smart, but people are stupid . . . goes with the sheep / mass quantity . . . falling for marketing schemes and false lies put as ‘truth’. Do I really need that $60 shoes that is made out of used and threaded canvas just because it was in the magazines? Or that fart pipe that seems to adorn many import rice rockets? No.

as a personal note I have found out sometimes the ‘sheep’ do know whats best as the masses can choose good stuff. Sometimes you have to nod at Johnny Rotten, but take your own path . . . still like Nirvana because it was good at the time and friends rocked out and the song stirs memories of good times with good people.

But my opinion is this pop out, go to manufacturing phase, will help cheapen surfboards but at the same time, could cause a loss of knowledge . . . by guys that really know how to make great boards . . .

Keep in mind…the new marketing hype is the…" look out for the old handshaping board builder don’t buy a popout or chinese board" or " Surfboard building is in danger buy local" Still a slogan and still depends on the shaper. The good ones have plenty of work…the rest need to go away or get better.

Greg L. is correct by saying that boardbuilders need to build a better product to have anything to gripe about with the Asian stuff and popouts. Most of us know what that stuff is all about anyway. Will popouts cheapen surfboards? I suspect the likes of Merrick will do that with stuff like Anacapa. Buy a Merrick…but “cheaper” puts the emphasis on price.

As for Johnny Rotten…Got to love him more than Nirvana. Rotten would tell you to take your own path and insult you for copying him.