For a moment, just suppose that in the next 10 years, computer-assisted shaping technology was to financially come within the grasp of nearly ANYONE (as was finally the case with PC`s) who wanted to personally own one these units and seriously experiment with design and shape surfboards… including all the necessary user-friendly software, offering unlimited access to hundreds of infinitely modifiable designs… blessing or curse?
Dale, Great question. Here’s my quick assessment: - Blessing to the backyard shapers & inventor experimenter types (!!!). - Blessing to the supply companies & milling houses. - Curse to the commercial shapers. Mike ps - Dale. I’m still working on those diagrams – I’ve just been so busy lately. ;-)>>> For a moment, just suppose that in the next 10 years, computer-assisted > shaping technology was to financially come within the grasp of nearly > ANYONE (as was finally the case with PC`s) who wanted to personally own > one these units and seriously experiment with design and shape > surfboards… including all the necessary user-friendly software, offering > unlimited access to hundreds of infinitely modifiable designs… blessing > or curse?
As a graphic designer I can totally relate to the pros and cons of board building technology being available to the masses. In regards to design I hear it all the time that "well my friend’s sister’s boyfriend just got a new computer with a really neat graphics program, so we are going to let him do this design because he will do it for free (or next to nothing). What they don’t understand is that they are not paying for just a design, they are paying for the design to be done correctly, so there are no problems with the seps, printing, etc. The same can be said for board building. But when you think about the technology has always been there, just to what degree. Whether it was an ancient rider wave sliding on a piece of koa, backyard guys like myself and most others on the board doing our own thing with poly, or some guy ten years from now busting out computer shapes in his garage. The bottom line is that people will always be interested in making their own shapes, only the ones that are serious, and have a passion for it will stick to it. Even if it is automated or not. You are still going to have to put in your specs that will only be obtained through r&d on your own. I say bring on the machines. Established shapers will still have a clientel because those want proven shapes. It would most definately cause some smaller guys to go out of business, or reinvent themselves. But is that necessarily bad? With new technology, who knows, the next great advent in surfboard technology may come from some kid who rides a wave pool in arizona.
I would agree with swaylock that it would be a curse to big commercial guys already invested in expensive design and shaping machinery. The benefit would be in bringing milling capabilities within the reach both in price and geography of more backyard shapers which would allow them to jump up to maybe a regional level. Big name brands become less important because their work can be copied and modified even easier than before. Overhead for the backyard guys is less and in many cases advertising is nil where as the big guys blow giagantic chuncks of change on marketing and overhead(although those 4 color brochures do look nice). Another benefit to the small guy is that it can drastically increase the amount of product one guy can build allowing a maxed out one man show to grow even more. Of course I have yet to see a real “user friendly” design software… Matthew Weaver>>> For a moment, just suppose that in the next 10 years, computer-assisted > shaping technology was to financially come within the grasp of nearly > ANYONE (as was finally the case with PC`s) who wanted to personally own > one these units and seriously experiment with design and shape > surfboards… including all the necessary user-friendly software, offering > unlimited access to hundreds of infinitely modifiable designs… blessing > or curse?
When I started designing my own surf forms I was really stoked. As I rode successive forms I learned how many design errors I had made. From there I am learning the almost infinite ways of making bad design errors. I am also learning that progress from a “good enough” design to a “magic” design is excrrrrruciating. At first, the good guys laughed at my errors. After I made a little progress in the right direction I was surprised to see how many designers I had already passed up. I started pummeling them with corrected design concepts. Funny, in retrospect I began to realize that the designers who were already past my level had expended little effort in reshaping my head. As I venture into (for me) uncharted territory I keep stepping on my tongue, and slapping myself to wake up. NOW I understand how truly tallented board designers can resist beating novices to pieces over their errors. True magic isnt merely too valuable to give away. Good board design is tiring to accomplish, to work at, and to express. Count me as an avid admirer of the best in the business.
The same as for close tolerance blanks. It is a blessing.
When I started designing my own surf forms I was really stoked. As I rode > successive forms I learned how many design errors I had made. From there I > am learning the almost infinite ways of making bad design errors. I am > also learning that progress from a “good enough” design to a > “magic” design is excrrrrruciating.>>> At first, the good guys laughed at my errors. After I made a little > progress in the right direction I was surprised to see how many designers > I had already passed up. I started pummeling them with corrected design > concepts. Funny, in retrospect I began to realize that the designers who > were already past my level had expended little effort in reshaping my > head.>>> As I venture into (for me) uncharted territory I keep stepping on my > tongue, and slapping myself to wake up. NOW I understand how truly > tallented board designers can resist beating novices to pieces over their > errors. True magic isnt merely too valuable to give away. Good board > design is tiring to accomplish, to work at, and to express.>>> Count me as an avid admirer of the best in the business. One of the frustrating realities often associated with those elusive “magic” board designs is the fact that they simply aren
t "magic" to everyone... along with many other variables, personal subjectivity still plays a key role. Visually appealing, functional, generic surfboard designs, marketed to a wide audience, inevitably are the ultimate in compromise in contrast to a thoughtful, individually created custom stick... I see lots of room for both approaches, as long as consumers aren
t being mislead.
One of the frustrating realities often associated with those elusive > “magic” board designs is the fact that they simply aren
t > "magic" to everyone... along with many other variables, personal > subjectivity still plays a key role. Visually appealing, functional, > generic surfboard designs, marketed to a wide audience, inevitably are the > ultimate in compromise in contrast to a thoughtful, individually created > custom stick... I see lots of room for both approaches, as long as > consumers aren
t being mislead. Yeah, I’m discovering an important design aspect. For one designer to master custom and production shapes he must gain enough design experience to know what variables need changing as a result of other design changes. When completed, each shape has to come together to meet both criteria you described. One guy might want less offset, and a narrower nose. Changes must be made to rocker, rails and foil to make the changes ride correctly and look appealing. It ain’t easy. Not everyone is capable of performing this balancing act well, no matter how much experience they have. The more I learn, the more problems (opportunities) I encounter.
Yeah, I’m discovering an important design aspect. For one designer to > master custom and production shapes he must gain enough design experience > to know what variables need changing as a result of other design changes. > When completed, each shape has to come together to meet both criteria you > described.>>> One guy might want less offset, and a narrower nose. Changes must be made > to rocker, rails and foil to make the changes ride correctly and look > appealing.>>> It ain’t easy. Not everyone is capable of performing this balancing act > well, no matter how much experience they have. The more I learn, the more > problems (opportunities) I encounter. To have more questions than answers, you are truly wise man.
Just caught up with you guys…this, and the “wolf in sheep’s clothing” thread -have been a great exchange, a real eye-opener, and a great use of this…Sway’s…site. Now, we’re talking! I have one thing to say, though, and DALE might relate to this - being a designer…PRODUCTION is NOT the SAME as DESIGN!!! When the computer graphics revolution came about, it put a lot of typesetters, and various production people out of work…those that did not “get with the program”, that is. The computer has really freed the graphic artist to derive SOME solutions within seconds. The computer is an “enabler”, it’s up to the “operator” to make either good or bad use. At the beginning, every so and so, (AND his grandpappy) was now a “graphic designer” because he had some knowledge of this new tool that freed the hand (and the imagination, in SOME folks). But, believe me, there was (and still is) a lotta junk visuals out there (along with the good stuff). I just worry that people looking to make a buck (“not that there’s anything wrong with that”{Seinfeld}) will not put in the hours in the water to understand the nuances…do they really need to? Yeah, I really think they must - or, at least have the associated FEELING for a design. I DO realize it will PROBABLY be surfers/designers who Will become the chief “modelers”(SP.?) of our future boards . Some say bring the robot shaper on (and, in fact, I’d better get used to it - it’s apparently here to stay…{that don’t mean I have to fully LIKE it}). Sometimes “LESS IS MORE”, eh,DALE?!! Tom. P.S. I DO realize that it’s just another tool…I just have my reservations about proliferation for heavy profit as the main focus.
I would agree with swaylock that it would be a curse to big commercial > guys already invested in expensive design and shaping machinery. The > benefit would be in bringing milling capabilities within the reach both in > price and geography of more backyard shapers which would allow them to > jump up to maybe a regional level. Big name brands become less important > because their work can be copied and modified even easier than before. > Overhead for the backyard guys is less and in many cases advertising is > nil where as the big guys blow giagantic chuncks of change on marketing > and overhead(although those 4 color brochures do look nice). Another > benefit to the small guy is that it can drastically increase the amount of > product one guy can build allowing a maxed out one man show to grow even > more. Of course I have yet to see a real “user friendly” design > software…>>> Matthew Weaver The big problem is that without some kind of probable return on investment, nobody is going to spend the money to develop a real nice system. We’re kind of feeling this effect. We’ve spent years and lots of dollars on creating a very very nice design/manufacturing system, but the surfboard market just isn’t lucrative enought to support that kind of business model. We’ll break even forever by servicing the big guys, but If I were to put out the money and effort required to develop an even nicer design system it would be pretty foolish, considering I could invest that money/effort elsewhere and be almost gauranteed an incredibly higer return on the investment. This applies to the ‘scientific R&D’ thread too. If you’re smart/well funded enough to do the true scientific R&D folks are talking about, you’re gonna chose to do it on boats/cars/microwaves/computers/whatever, not surfboards. We’re really all in this industry for love, not money, and that really limits our talent/venture capital pool. Boy you’ve all caught me in a very cynical mood [smile] I need to get some more waves. Damn this flu/headcold. http://www.kklmachine.com