blue cored sandwiches

I didn’t quite understand exactly what he was saying but it did involve leaving the surface super rough and not push out the resin from the glass like you would normally would when glassing a board instead you push it into the foam.

Seemed kind of bizarre to me… heavy too…

Who knows maybe they got a bad rep with their boards since I don’t know anything about them other than all they sold was just boards nothing else… although I thought they had some of the best glassed boards I saw driving up the coast from San Diego outside of maybe Thalia.

I think if someone wants to find out more they can just go stop by and ask more questions or visit or talk to someone at their glassing factory to find out. I think McDing might know who they(The glassing factory) are… Guys in the area should just go visit them in Huntington and find out…

I’m still very skeptical of the durability of a blue core board but that’s why we’re gonna find out for ourselves like usual and find out who been feeding us the BS on the stuff.

There’s alot of that been going on here already for profit.

By all means, don’t let my post discourage you in any way (can’t speak for anyone else…but I wouldn’t have included the dow links if I didn’t think you should pursue it) ultimately all that will matter is your testing, and the resulting process you come up with…if I were looking into something new, I would value the failures higher than the examples of success, for their informational value.

grab a block, slice it, dice it, scrape it, baste it, serve it scattered, smothered, covered chunked and topped, layup a panel and see if you can’t recreate some of the problems that are rumored to occur, then see if you can fix-em…

FWIW my problems seemed to revolve around adhesion to the foam more than outgassing, although perhaps the outgassing still contributed some…only high traffic areas delammed, and it’s been to the tropics…It was tough to get peel tests where the lam took up chunks of foam…

Also, I kinda like the color…


oops, I see you already went there…

if I were glassing one…

I believe it was DSD who said rough it so its furry/fuzzy…this is a very easy to do last step before glassing…36g, 40g whatever.

Lay on and cut your glass. If using a tight weave, fold one half over and smother the board thick with resin, then flip it back into the pool. Repeat for other side. If using open weave, conventional pour and squeegee method applies. Just gotta make sure that there’s enough resin used to fill the foam pits…Id estimate about 1.5:1 ratio, maybe more. I would also add additional 6oz foot reinforcements on the deck in a +/-45 weave orientation. Better yet, if using 2 or more layers on deck, one layer in that orientation, plus foot reinf. If using a total of 12oz on deck, 444 is better than 66. Alternatively, you can core your deck skin with whatever mat’l you like.

With enough glass reinf and no high heat exposure, it should last pretty good me thinks. HTH.

Hi all - Been a while since I “played” sway… I made a blue one w/2" insulation. First thing I learned -after the fact - lots more flex than 2# eps. Which, help put the rocker in on the rocker table. But, using uni-directional carbon for the “stringer” and not “covering it… I got a couple bubbles in the long, yet not so hot, summer days up her in the Pacific NorthWest… Bummer. After reading this thread I am wondering if the way that board went off the bottom - best “projecting”/speed generating (Yes, Roy I said it.) board off the bottom I’ve ever had - wasn’t the foams flex, as opposed to the full bottom channel ala HIC converter. Anyway, I buckled it in head high reef dredge and never bothered with it again. I scored one side, as was mentioned, and poke 1/16” holes on a 1/2" grid on the other, and I did 2x4oz full length top and bottom with 2/3 deck patch, and 1/3 bottom patch.

Oneula - my only “concern” would be the differenc in flex characteristics. Good luck, and keep on experimenting… look forward to being able to report on my next project.

Taylor O

I just want to confirm that everyone responding here is calling those folks at Chuck Dent Surfboards selling racks and racks of blue dow boards in their shop a bunch of liars and thieves. Just want to make sure i understand that’s what the sways crew wants to call them out for… its subtle but that’s the hidden meaning (kauna) behind the words…

I’m not in the area to do it but maybe some one should actually go down there and find out for sure what they are doing then alert the public about the rip off to those that don’t know any better.

A public service for sure…

be good to find out their story before stating something like that though…

thanks in advance

Try checking out surfersteve.com. He has some advice on XPS/Blue dow.

Damn, now you got me thinking about XPS again. Not like I don’t have enough other projects to do. I like the idea of using it as a waterproof outer skin and letting it outgas (ingas?) to the inside eps core and venting the core. Maybe a few projects down the line though.

I don’t think Chuck’s going to be too worried about what we say about him.

Oneula,

Check this out:

http://www.bufo-boards.com/media/bilder/fiberglas-wurzel/

BTW they seem to be doing this under pretty high vacuum.

Looks like blank sealing and peelply being used.

http://www.bufo-boards.com/uploads/pics/IMG_0583_01.JPG

afterthought, I suspect the resin is coated and vacc’ed under high vacuum to get “rooted” into the core and the peelply leaves a good surface to bond the fiberglass to… aha erlebniss…

I was thinking last night about what you said about the guy using special glassing techniques on the blue stuff. I think Craftee hit it on the head. It would be the same technique for any rough-surfaced shaped blank you would glass. You would saturate the cloth and not pull all the resin off so that the deeper scratched areas would hold resin and not be dried out from pulling the resin too hard with the squeegee.

I must have missed something about people calling Dent’s shop a bunch of liars and thieves… How can they be L&T’s if their boards are holding up? Proof’s in the pudding.

Quote:

I just want to confirm that everyone responding here is calling those folks at Chuck Dent Surfboards selling racks and racks of blue dow boards in their shop a bunch of liars and thieves. Just want to make sure i understand that’s what the sways crew wants to call them out for…

I think sways has ‘called liars’ on any surfboard building method/materials out there, be it PU/PE, Epoxy/EPS/XPS or sandwich just plainly because there is always someone who’s had a bad experience. My two cents.

Surfer_Dave, Netherlands, Bufo boards nice find, have you actually seen them around? any input on durability from the European surf community?

I have seen a whole bunch of them, older and newer. Never took one out though, a bit too smurf coloured… LOL just kidding.

tough and light, but not tuflite. They flex and riders who ride em seem to think they rock. Like the pictures show, epoxy forced into the foam to adhese the fiberglass shell, grooves routed and filled with fiberglass to control flex. Sanded finish. Good lookin product overall. But I’d rather have a sunova… or my own attempt at it until we get burgers here…

Begging your pardon,

“I just want to confirm that everyone responding here is calling those folks at Chuck Dent Surfboards selling racks and racks of blue dow boards in their shop a bunch of liars and thieves. Just want to make sure i understand that’s what the sways crew wants to call them out for…” its subtle but that’s the hidden meaning (kauna) behind the words… "

I responded, and you may not confirm that I am calling anyone a liar. I wouldn’t know Chuck Dent if he came up and punted me in the nads. where is that? Hawaii? I’ve never been…I hear it’s nice. I have made six back yard boards, and one of them was blue foam. I had a certain set of difficulties, and some links I used, that I thought I would share. did I miss something, or stumble into some smoldering conflict?

"its subtle but that’s the hidden meaning (kauna) behind the words… "

"be good to find out their story before stating something like that though… "

can you be a little more specific as to the words? I went back through the post, but couldn’t find anything…

Perhaps you were reacting to someone else, but you said everyone, and that includes me. I would like not to be misrepresented when it comes to bagging someone’s work, of any kind. If I choose to bag someone’s work (almost never) it will be with plenty of good reason to back that up.

Thanks,

wells

Quote:

I wouldn’t know Chuck Dent if he came up and punted me in the nads.

HA! Dont worry about it dude…the surfboard ‘industry’ needs to be ‘saved’ and he’s just extrapolating a bit.

Just to clarify - Chuck Dent died about 20 years ago.

Oneula,

The blue xps (dow) board I made two years ago is still going strong. There is no delamination at all so far.

I sanded only down to 60 grit as I was too lazy to go any further down.

With my inexperience with laminating I may have inadvertently done the right thing by not pushing too much resin out of the cloth also.

Inexperience and laziness - who would have thought that would be the right approach.

Cheers

Rohan

Sorry Onuela, for being so late seeing your question.

Yes, I have done it, although differently.  60 psi XPS was cut to 3/8" thickness with a chain saw clamped to a table.  This layer was 4’ long and replaced the extra cloth normally used for extra reinforcement of the deck.  The foam  was epoxied to a 2lb.cu.ft. XPS core.  All foam was sanded with #20 grit sandpaper for increased bond.  10% more resin was used in the laminate to fill the roughness.  This worked well, as the board is still being used two years later and has no dents or delaminations.  The 60 psi foam has not delaminated from the 25 psi core, and the cloth has not delaminated from anywhere.  One layer of 8oz twill weave E cloth top and bottom was used.  No gloss coat was applied.  The owner is 190 lbs, and the board has also been used as a tandem board a few times.  The 60 psi foam reduced the total finished weight of the board by 1 pound, by allowing  less cloth on the deck.

Please consider the possibly that the information you may have heard or read about XPS may be inacurate.  The following may clear up a few questions and misconceptions about XPS, including:  1.  Densities available.  2.  Tendency to delaminate.  3.  Out gassing.    I have made about 30 boards from XPS, and have been in contact with about 20 builders also building surfboards with it.  I talked,  for hours,  to a chemist at Dow Chemical Company who specializes in polymers.  He discussed XPS out gassing, or lack thereof, in detail.  I pass the Dow plant (largest in the world), every few days, and live a few miles from a huge foam distributor - I have done eperiments with every kind of foam they have.

1.  Densities available:  1lb/cu.ft.(15 psi),  2lb/cu.ft. (25psi - most common XPS used in surfboards - Dow Blue Board, Square Edge), 40 psi, 60 psi, 80 psi, 100 psi.   40 and 60 psi are about 3lb/cu.ft., 80 and 100 are a little over 3lb/cu.ft.   Information is from Houston Foam Plastics.  Cubic foot amounts are industry approximations.  Psi amounts are compressive strength.  100 psi is similar to soft wood, such as cedar, or balsa.

2.  Tendency to delaminate.  XPS is more likely to delaminate compared to  equal densities of EPS and Polyurethane.  This can be compensated for by very lightly sanding the blank with #20 sandpaper before lamination.  This greatly increases the bond.  This sanding makes XPS no more likely to delaminate compared with other foams.  Also;  XPS will start to deform and melt at 160 degrees (EPS 180 degrees) - XPS boards that have white pigment in the hot coats and/or gloss coats, stay 20 - 40 degrees cooler, and are less likely to delaminate.  So…although XPS has the benefit of negligible water absorption, if you are not willing to build differently, do not use XPS.

3.  Out gassing.  The Dow chemist said the gas that people on Swaylocks are referring to is simply this:  Air - just the air in the atmosphere.  He said there is no way there are other gasses in the bubble areas (delamination with raised cloth) mentioned, unless the board is actually melting, or on fire.   He said all foams are mostly air, and when they are compressed air is released.  This air will expand on hot days and cause the cloth to bubble.  The reason you do not see this with EPS is because the foam leaks air between the beads, all through the blank.  Delaminaions with bubbled cloth areas are not common in polyurethane, but it does happen, especially on hot days, when a delaminated area will expand with hot air. The Dow chemist said the comments about out gassing were so numerous and annoying that he was considering crushing the foam in a vacuum and using a mass spectrometer to analyze the gas content - just to end the question.

In conclusion:  3/8" XPS (60 PSI) works well as a layer over a low density core (only if you will sand with #20 sandpaper, and use 10% more resin in that area) - this method will save about 1 pound, by allowing for one layer of cloth top and bottom.

Note:  Although high density vinyl foams are now commonly used as a thin layer over low density foam cores, we have found it much easier, and more effective to use carbon fiber deck patches (as a stand alone layer).  The carbon overlaps the other single cloth layer only by 1/2" - there is no cloth under the carbon, except at this 1/2"" overlap - 4oz to 20oz have been tested.  Please see the new RESEARCH chapter at www.surfersteve.com - this book was written for first time builders, but  production builders may find something valuable, as there are many surprises about building materials and techniques.

 

 

Does anyone else have any more PHOTOS of white and blue combination foam boards , please ?

 

[ I’m thinking along the lines of …  boards with blue foam multiple stringers , on white foam eps boards , photos ?]

 

  cheers

 

  ben

some trials