Aloha , I wonder a little about if having such a light board is not the best thing sometimes. Does’nt a little more weight allow a board to maybe make some sections of waves that a lighter one would’nt ? I have 2- 8ft. funshapes that are nearly identical except that 1 is poly and 1 Epoxy . When the waves are good I want to take the lighter epoxy board but when I think they are gonna be “weak” I take the heaver Poly board… Does that make sense ? Actually I usually ride my longboard anyways as the waves here in S. Florida are usually poor…
yeah I have the same feeling…experimenting is hard because you always want it to work…I remember when epoxy was the in thing and I couldnt get it to work…but it could have been the shape and not the materials…I have had some great light boards but I think there is a point where its too light and too heavy…heavy boards work great in knarly conditions and light boards in no wind… aloha cheyne…
Hey HC,
wondering if adding removable weights to a lightweight board would be useful. Just dial the proper weight in for the desired effect…you could play with weight distribution also. I have found that even just a half pound makes a tremendeous difference on shorties, particularly off the front/nose.
Regards, Dave
I agree with what I read Mark Richards say,
" I think a board can sometimes be too light and too sensitive. I like a board that sits in the water and runs"
Also, being that I’m 5’10 and only 140 lbs [machado’s size] , on really strong offshore days, I prefer a bit of weight to help me get down the face. [All my boards are at least 19" -20 1/2 wide and 2 1/2 " thick]. As I am 43 and surfing with 20yo mates every few days, I NEED a bit of glide to ‘keep up the wave quota’
ben
no such thing as to light…
but there is such a thing as to light in a polyester board , when a poly gets to light it get rubbery like a thong and lacks sensitivity , so theres a cut off point with lightness in polyester construction …
sandwich / areospace contruction offers lightness with stiffness , but the ability to bend further and twang back quicker , allowing flater rockers for better paddling and flying over dead sections , plus itll bend into bowls when you load it and twang out with lightning speed …
things are changing and the old rules dont apply anymore…
regards
BERT
Bert is right again… I’ve found the same things to be true. Also, “the on top of the water” feel is due in large part to the foam density along the rail. We proved this recently with multi density blanks and perimeter stringers (check page 158 of the new September issue of Surfing). We are presently developing products using this line of thought. And again kudos to Bert for his imput into this branch of the evolutionary tree.
Hey Joe - where you going with that gun in your hand?
One of the nicest features of the mats that Dale makes, is the ability to change the floation and stiffness characteristics - or whatever it is that mat riders do when their mouths are on their mats - OUT IN THE LINE-UP.
When I buy one of your boards I would like to be able to make your board heavier or not as I SAW FIT. A water ballast system in the rails that is fillable or emptiable in the line-up would kick ass! Is this where I type IMHO? I’ll sometimes paddle out into gnarly conditions that clean up mid-way through and vice versa…I honestly wouldn’t mind the weight in bad conditions, but I surely don’t want it when it’s time to fly (To every season, turn-turn-turn)
I don’t know, maybe you tried it and the sloshing of water in the rails didn’t pan out in the consumer surveys.
How about a longitudinal screw-in carbon fiber rod to make the board stiffer - or not?
I know whatever you say is right, cause my son says, “The future is epoxy, dad…get with the program”
daddio
The water bladder system you mention is something we have contemplated. Easy to do too. I brought the idea up to Rick Hammon at Rusty’s and his comment was, “How are we supposed to initiate an idea like that when most guys are afraid to move a fin 1/4 of an inch?” Gotta agree with him there. It is possible to make boards TOTALLY adjustable. But the base knowledge for this isn’t wide spread enough to initiate it. There needs to be an opening of minds to new ideas. Even among designers… maybe especially among designers.
open minds in the surfboard industry??
tell me when to stop laughing…
seems theres only a very small percentage willing to step into the unknown, most have a wait and see attitude …
and it seems even after they have seen they still dont beleive it , they just stick there head back in the sand and hope it all goes away…and when all else fails just go back to the fraudulent propaganda and heavying unwary buyers into purchasing 2nd rate equipment…
but then again most crew arent designers anyway…
there clone shapers…
you probably would find more willing minds among true designers then shapers as a whole…
hey greg stoked to hear i may have encouraged surfboard development down another branch…when you hear comments like that , it makes it all seem worthwhile…
regards
BERT
Now you’ve got my attention…
Maybe it starts with you, the surfboard industry…In that case I can’t wait for - How to tune your new epoxy board for different conditions by just moving the fin 1/4" - on your website.
Or maybe an owners manual?
Hell - I buy a toaster and they give me more information than I get with all the MONEY I spend on a NEW surfboard.!!! I sure as hell don’t get butterflies in my stomach when I buy a new toaster though.
No wonder you guys can’t charge what a CUSTOM surfboard is really worth.
Check-out some custom guitar sites. Those craftsmen get $3,000+ for one of their creations. They don’t even worry about fighting it out with the $100 Korean knock-offs. 3,000 dived by 100 is what?? You’re not competing with fcs and surftec - you shouldn’t be driving down each other’s prices - what kind of a business model is that?
I can’t even believe that there is a discussion about why a light surfboard is right or not…If you and Greg say so - that’s good enough for me!
Just a humble consumer,
daddio
Quote:
open minds in the surfboard industry??
tell me when to stop laughing…
seems theres only a very small percentage willing to step into the unknown, most have a wait and see attitude …
and it seems even after they have seen they still dont beleive it , they just stick there head back in the sand and hope it all goes away…and when all else fails just go back to the fraudulent propaganda and heavying unwary buyers into purchasing 2nd rate equipment…
regards
BERT
Well I have certaily seen many shapers give a hard time to other shapers for going out on a limb with designs. I personally would be for ANY improvement on design if it can be proven to be an improvement and not simply hype.
The only so called propaganda that you mention I have seen is towards the new crop of popouts. You can’t blame the people calling crap on the sales method of these companies.
They are the ones making claims they cannot back up. That is why there is so much controversy.
I hear shapers say wide tails don’t work and then you find other master shapers who swear by them. One will say narrow paper thin boards are crap and others will say look at Slater or something. Much of it works, but much of it is little different from any other accepted norms.
I like the new handshaped epoxy as being shaped by guys like Greg and Steve Forstall, but I have seen just as many that do not have these shapers knowledge of design nor their talent for producing quality surfboards. It still comes down to application. I don’t think anything is vastly superior at this point or experienced surfers would have noticed like they did with the Twin Fin, Thruster, or narrow nose outline.
I thought that this thread was about glide?
The bigger and heavier the board is, the more glide it has!
Shortboards have very little glide. Big longboards have lots of glide.
Long live the Glide!
R.S.
Yeah right Roy - I’d like to see you “glide” a floater as far as a short board - the sky is falling. Bouyancy-momentum/glide and speed/glide are just glide by different means.
Glide isn’t only for the “Bulkier fellows”
Yikes - What the heck am I doin in this thread?
Roy - what do you say? We gather up our toys and go back to the speed surfing thread where we belong.
‘Yeah right’ yourself.
I am not talking about floaters I am talking about good old fashioned momentum. ‘Glide’ has been used frequently by longboarders to refer to momentum and the ability to connect sections. My comment is relevant to the thread topic.
I’m not sure if it’s because of the big blade fin, the weight, rocker, length, or some other combination of design elements but some of the old longboards I’ve ridden just cruised right on through sections and made it down the line on waves that shortboards didn’t have a chance on.
Some shortboards can really squirt like a bar of wet soap in the pocket but hit a flat shoulder and they sink. A heavier longboard just keeps gliding. It’s a rare California break that consistently peels for any distance allowing high performance shortboard surfing. Many times I hear shortboarders grump about mushy waves or whatever and see them stalling and sinking on flat shoulders.
The infamous “Huntington Hop” was developed to deal with the shortboard short comings in exactly those types of waves to try to keep up after the wave backs off.
Of course, the judges really like that maneuver and even score extra points for it(?!) At least that’s what it sounded like last time I watched a contest on TV. The announcer seemed to think it (Huntington Hop) was really cool.
Phil Edwards had some good arguments re: speed and momentum of longboards vs shortboards… as I recall - in addition to “gliding like a pelican” they just end up “farther down the beach.”
Quote:
open minds in the surfboard industry??
tell me when to stop laughing…
seems theres only a very small percentage willing to step into the unknown, most have a wait and see attitude …
and it seems even after they have seen they still dont beleive it , they just stick there head back in the sand and hope it all goes away…and when all else fails just go back to the fraudulent propaganda and heavying unwary buyers into purchasing 2nd rate equipment…
but then again most crew arent designers anyway…
there clone shapers…
you probably would find more willing minds among true designers then shapers as a whole…
hey greg stoked to hear i may have encouraged surfboard development down another branch…when you hear comments like that , it makes it all seem worthwhile…
regards
BERT
Unfortuantely this mentality is prevalant in the industry. The guy that taught me how to shape doesnt like the new materials like epoxy or DHP reasoning “why would you want a board to last longer?” When we discussed trying to educate the customer i was told you dont want an educated customer…wow!
OK - You mean like when they have to think about stopping or turning one of those crude oil supertankers like - I don’t know the figure exactly - maybe a mile before they actually turn or stop?
I can hear the announcer for one of these contests:
“Bob is walking back while taking a draw on his coffee mug… now he’s walking over to the starboard rail. He’s really putting some incredible force on his inside rail!!! You can almost hear the pressure groaning as that triple 7.5 oz Volan cloth rail bites into that 2’ wall… It’s starting to come around - almost - almost… Oh darn he’s run aground and spilled his coffee! Now he’s really doing the Huntington hop with that hot coffee on his lap”
I did say I didn’t belong on this thread, Gliderboys.
You’re the experts.
daddio
LOL! - Yeah, I hear the judges REALLY like that sort of thing!!!
Another problem with one of those contests is that the judges need a rotating judges stand with high powered binoculars so that they can see what is going on as the competitors cruise further and further off down the beach and out of sight.
Roy,
Thanks for the picture!!! You know what surfing is really about.
Are we clueless trolls, OR do you feel more like we’re on the sidelines taking a peek at the Emperor’s new clothes 
My friend, Bob, who is a longboarder - by choice - would always show up at the beach with these 10’ belly roll-rounded bottom-soft rounded edge, what I thought were “bloated” looking boards that would make me laugh. But he had traveled the world in his youth surfing while I stayed at home and surfed beach breaks and points. My ten footer had flatter rocker-hard edge rails and glassed on big base twin fin size side fins. On most sessions I could kick his ass. BK bottom turns, pump and fly floaters and even the occasional cutbacks. Bob would take off and find his line, subtly adjust and end up WAY down the beach.
He is always tinkering with his fins. He had these cutaway base, really small side fins “Won’t create so much drag when I’m in trim”
Then he was trying out one of those high aspect swept affairs “Be great in the juice”…Hmmmm.
It seems I was missing the point cause when the juicy day arrived and he pulled out his side fins and put that high aspect fin in he kicked my ass while my board bogged with all that side fin drag and that inappropriate flat bottom plane speed hard edge release was totally out of control.
I must say that I am going shorter though(7’5"), and My son appears to surf more “radically” than yours, but as long as we’re all smiling at the end of the day?
Also a prediction on the fin wars - Rich will kick ass…
And when I dream that I’m surfing I’m in the position of riding a mat, but there isn’t one there…Hmmmm.
Dale - I think I’m gonna order one, yeah - then Bob will be laughing at me - until…