“Swaylocks Surfboard ‘Design’ Forum — thoughts & theories on ‘all aspects’ of surf-craft including practical & theoretical ‘design,’ tools & materials, ‘construction tips & techniques’”
Now, with variations of one equation, I can “design” well over 1,000 “original” board shapes.
I’ve been a member at Swaylocks since 2007 (before I ever used CAD or CNC). I started designing surfboards in the margins of my high school English notebook in the ‘60s — been doing it ever since.
Good luck precisely, efficiently and cost effectively hand shaping the performance properties and curves of my channel without using the hand “construction technology” I patented (US Patent No. 11,649,013).
You too have made your opinions clear enough, 3 times now. Your perspective is more than a little elitist.
If eye and hand working is elitism, then so be it.
I’m glad for you if you have time and money to patent anything related to surfboards.
Now, if your “channel” has been mathematically created, no doubt you can post precise figures regarding performance such as speed, acceleration, control as compared to another less sophisticated surfboard?
I joined Swaylocks in 2004 because a bunch of unique craftsmen were willing to share their tricks with newbies there. I learned a lot and then I tried to pass this acquired knowledge to others. What knowledge are you going to pass on to us? Equations? Also, not sure that patenting something is the best way to share it with others.
And, in case you didn’t notice, this place is about sharing, primarily. Unless I’ve been wrong from the beginning.
I agree with the above posts regarding a build thread and think there are merits in voting on the best thread also. As far as the build method, personally I’m not worried about how the board was created or who glassed it. As long as the submission is well documented and is honestly represented I don’t see an issue. The voting will decide whether hand shaped or CNC boards are preferred. For me it’s about being inspired to create something, where that inspiration comes from is a secondary concern … for me at least. I’m just frothing to see some more boards!!!
I have routinely shared plenty of relevant technology here at Sways over the years as a regular participant/poster.
What my channel does has been explained in build threads here at Sways, at other forums and in the patent. I patented my channel and construction technology to protect my ideas from the large commercial surfboard and bodyboard manufacturing companies. I did this to keep others from making money on my ideas. If an individual wants to make my patented designs for personal use, more power to them. For profit, we will have a problem.
Maybe I missed it, have you publicly distributed your board templates here at Sways?
Your posts in this thread clearly communicate your belief in the sole validity of hand shaping. Elitism is believing your methods and work are the one true path.
“nothing against you or your way of doing things but ‘this has nothing to do with shaping.’ Why don’t you create your own forum?”
Mike’s long-standing stated purpose of this forum — as I previously posted — goes well beyond “shaping.”
This a great discussion! Please keep the ideas and opinions flowing… 
And before tribal warfare breaks out, let me say that SWAYLOCKS recognizes all aspects and forms of board building. Whether it’s a machine made, mass-produced pop-out or a one-of-a-kind paipo, carved out of bunches of pampas grass, it all falls under surfcraft, and all surfcraft are worthy of examination and reflection on SWAYLOCKS.
My original vision of the contest was to keep it as simple and open as possible on all fronts (both for me & contestants & voters). And when it comes to picking “winners”, lean heavily on the wisdom of the crowd. To that end, I agree heartily with the sentiment on voting given by @Tom_Maniaci above:
I also think that the entire point if VOTING on a winner is also to put this up to a democratic process. If you think CNC boards don’t meet the cut, don’t vote for it. Once the court of public opinion weighs in, that will persuade or dissuade folks from further posting their builds up.
I am looking for ideas around how to actually implement the contest. Are there many categories? How are submissions “submitted”. How does voting take place? A lot of this stuff is more technical, operational stuff, but that stuff ultimately defines the nature of the contest.
Cheers!
Or at least ask people to specify how they built it? It seems like a really nice, original cnc build ought to win over a crappy hand build? But I think good to give voters as much information as possible.
The other option would be to split it into a few categories, like hand built vs machine, or even design vs artwork
Hey Mike,
I’d say once a quarter, build thread necessary, active request necessary for thread/build to be considered for that quarter (ie they have to ask to be included in the competition). Anything goes, enter at your own risk.
Might be fun to have a Q&A window before voting where people can ask the builder questions, but that may over complicate. Positive/constructive feedback only.
Test drive it for a few quarters and tweak as necessary.
Half-hearted suggestion: Every entry needs to be surfed in order to be entered, with appropriate photo or video support and preferably a write up of how the board performed.
“Maybe I missed it: have you publicly distributed your board templates here at Sways?”
Yes Sir.
Pretty much all the boards I made have been shown here, lots of them were a build thread and the quantity of photos I submitted made it easy to anyone with a good eye and a good hand to copy them. Maybe not as f…g exactly as a scanner and machine would have but close enough to have a lot of fun with them.
Which, to me, is the reason why we keep doing it.
The day when a board won’t be called: “The Pipeliner” but instead: “XWDTH548KB”, not sure we’ll have as much fun…
If its board of the month (or year or whatever), then the process isn’t the biggest factor, if its build of the month, then Balsa’s comments make more sense, cuz the machine built it, well, halfway anyway. So maybe the AI robot shaper can enter it, lol.
But I’m sure we can all think of possible scenarios where there is some reason to include machine shapes, so I would say allow them if its something exceptional- i.e. an einstein formula like Malaroo (remember those mathematical masterpieces?) designed, or something else exceptional, why not, i mean a lot of HWS are made from cnc cut pieces, and those guys want to participate.
Build threads are fundamental to the forum, pictures and story of the process, tons of fun and learning.
If a blank is machined, there’s still an awful lot of room for creative hand craft in the finishing, after all. But if its the build we’re voting on, then handcrafting seems pretty much a given.
How about this - build of the year, handmade only and build thread required, board of the year - everything else, build thread required, build thread of the year, hand or machine doesn’t matter, and thread of the year, for the most entertaining thread on any topic.
Sorry its late here I’m up but not very focused lol,
BTW I think this is the first thread in the new forum with traction - yeah!
If we can get a flame war going on might be in the running for thread of the year!!
So I’m new to the forum so not too much experience how you did that in the past.
I would not exclude anybody but rather do separate groups (eg. hand shaped only vs tool assisted vs tool only) if required. Excluding anybody in the beginning already is bad IMHO.
For the actual contest I would say once a quarter maybe (can be changed later on), build thread required and then not just only vote for one build/thread as a whole but I would do some sort of point system for each build
Eg
5/10 points for shape/design
8/10 points for actual build
8/10 points for the glass job
3/10 points for artwork
10/10 points for the thread
Total 34/50 points
I hope you get the idea.
So you could easily find the overall build of the quarter but also the best thread or best artistic approach and give some awards for those as well. So everyone, even new shapers have a chance for an award.
Fot the record - I’ve seen plenty of very cool boards built by beginners. The single biggest advantage the amateur has over the pro is time - we can go slow cuz our paycheck doesn’t depend on it. Also, pros probably gonna have less time to post a detailed thread, so amateur has same advantage there.
After this post balsa, I will not continue with your equivocation and thread hijack. I’ve posted photos, detailed graphics, figures, physics derivations (etc.) and precise explanations. Anybody with good skills could replicate some and approximate others.
“Photos” are not detailed, “printable templates.”
So “no,” you have not made your surfboard planshapes/templates publicly available as printable documents.
FTR just like any hand-drawn design, CAD gives designs whatever name their creator gives them. LMAO
Just a “few of many” things I have posted at Sways were used to create this blog.
Two of “many” examples (and often more than just one detailed post in any given thread alone).
I’ve only been doing this a few years, but I struggle when someone wants to take my readily available and increasingly popular build tools in the name of hand shaping, and then wants to allow power tools that are mythical and nearly impossible to find/buy.
I get it. Car forums are the same. At one point synchros in a transmission were for the weak, the art of rev matching is gone. Then fuel injection was cheating because there is an art to properly jetting a carb and these kids on their computers programming EFI wasn’t mechanics. Then dual clutch transmissions made everyone lament the death of the stick shift even though they’re faster in every way and more efficient. Now EVs are the devil even though they outperform in every way. The thing is, very few lament synchros or EFI anymore.
Everyone likes the way THEY did it. I’m sure the generation long gone thinks a Skil is cheating. It’s not. It’s using technology to make a process easier, more accurate, and more efficient.
The difference between a Skil and a CNC router is that the Skil is still managed and directed by man’s hands, not by a program. What I am trying to support here is an ability gained through years of experience.
We are not doing the same thing. We are not even talking about the same thing anymore.
Again, anybody with some skill (with 2 “Ls” ) will be able to copy or just take inspiration from good photos. Granted, the result may not be mathematically similar to the original but, again, who needs this kind of precision? You, it seems. How come you’re not number one or at least in the top ten of surfing professionals if your numeric boards are so far ahead of everything else? Big question.
You’re leading a whole generation of guys who won’t be able to do anything with their bare hands and eyes, let alone without their computers. Is that the future? Not for me, and not for MY kids.
Last time.
Designing with math and science is not a program.
A program is required to combine the complex, human-mind generated data into a manageable and executable form.
The human mind is directing the CNC router or cutting disk.
Standard Surfboard Design software and CNC machines were incapable of designing and cutting my channel.
I was ghosted by 2 pro/custom shapers, and 18 CNC companies when I asked them to collaborate with me to build paid for prototypes — hand or machine shaped. Basically, they could not do it (math ellipsis)…
One CNC company told me they could do it, but end-results were pathetic.
Finally, a “gifted” Sways garage CNC shaper was able to convert my design data into usable CAD files.
After 4 years, I have finally found a truly “talented” young man who bought a CNC for starting a home business, who can do genuine “precision” cutting — a highly unique ability — he is indeed an artisan.
As I have said previously, I patented my designs to protect them from profiteers.
I even presented my hand-shaping method for the channel to one of the pro-shapers. He liked it but didn’t have time for building a paid-for prototype. I created the hand-shaping technique as an alternative to Computers also. The patent is available for public viewing at the USPTO (US Patent Nos 10,974,797 and 11,649,013). Happy to license it for commercial production.
I’d have to give a sh!t about surf/surfboard pros to become one. However, I am a retired professional scientist.
I still do plenty of work with hand tools.
Even designed and built a hand sanding tool for use in shaping my channel.
And there it is. The gap between generations. “If I suffered then so must you.” I cringe every time an opportunity to educate and accelerate a new guy’s learning curve falls victim to “keep working and building and in about 20 boards you’ll have something you might enjoy riding.” Go inhale a ton more foam, build a bunch of crap boards you won’t want to surf, fill the landfills with stuff that won’t break down, and spend $10k doing it. That learning process is wasteful, expensive, and unnecessary. We can do better.
The next generation has no interest in investing that kind of time or resources, and it’s selfish and silly of us to insist that they do. If they are going to compete with the big box brands they need to be given the same tools and ENCOURAGED to use them, and celebrated when they can produce a competing product and carve out a living doing it. If we are going to stifle the use of technology then we are limiting the future to big brands and handcuffing the future of the independent.
I’m relatively new but I love this forum. I think I’m one of the few who threw in some cash to keep it going when Mike asked. I love the art you all create. I love the culture and the disgust. I miss that part of my home town now that it’s been overrun by corporate executives, foodies, and mansions. But we will fade quickly into irrelevance if we don’t support the next generation and encourage them to use the tools available to create unique shapes and continue to push the evolution.
Amen RNoll! The Luddites always lament bygone days.
And the the idea that individuals acquire a high level of CAD and CNC skill overnight is inane.
My only CAD ability is with 2D PowerPoint — pretty good at it. I have no CNC skills.
My design skills are with math and science. And I have a solid grasp of data formatting and what CNC is capable of doing in the right hands…