Brainstroming on an 8'9"

To the orginal thinkers: Nothing’s entirely orginal but what is? And this is more a departure from the traditional than it is orginal. I’m considering a new board around 8’9"x 21.75 more or less. With a 13.5" nose and a tail maybe as wide as 18" I see many modern short boards with narrow noses and wide tails. It’s not uncommon to see a 6’8" board with an 10" nose and 13" tail or at least measurements close to that. What I’m getting at is why not build a larger version of the same thing for the point breaks where you have to paddle a mile half the time. Having more substance and weight will be better for dealing with the open water chop that is so previlant when large swell is running. It seems to me that a wide tail would aid take offs and the driveyness of the board if it’s proportioned & finned correctly; Rounded pin seems to me it would be the best tail design for this application but essentially what I’m doing here is just brainstroming hoping the the minds of swaylocks will have so observation and advice for sage experience. I’d appreciate any ideas anyone has about how such a board would or would not work or any related ideas that come up as a result. I have my ideas about rail design and bottom contors that I think will serve such a design but at this point I just want to open the floor for input and debate. Good Surfin’, Rich

To the orginal thinkers: Nothing’s entirely orginal but what is? And this > is more a departure from the traditional than it is orginal.>>> I’m considering a new board around 8’9"x 21.75 more or less. With a > 13.5" nose and a tail maybe as wide as 18">>> I see many modern short boards with narrow noses and wide tails. It’s not > uncommon to see a 6’8" board with an 10" nose and 13" tail > or at least measurements close to that.>>> What I’m getting at is why not build a larger version of the same thing > for the point breaks where you have to paddle a mile half the time. Having > more substance and weight will be better for dealing with the open water > chop that is so previlant when large swell is running. It seems to me that > a wide tail would aid take offs and the driveyness of the board if it’s > proportioned & finned correctly; Rounded pin seems to me it would be > the best tail design for this application but essentially what I’m doing > here is just brainstroming hoping the the minds of swaylocks will have so > observation and advice for sage experience.>>> I’d appreciate any ideas anyone has about how such a board would or would > not work or any related ideas that come up as a result. I have my ideas > about rail design and bottom contors that I think will serve such a design > but at this point I just want to open the floor for input and debate.>>> Good Surfin’, Rich Rich, For starters, with the board and type of waves youre considering, the wider the tail, the thinner the rear foil... But remember, there are already highly refined point break designs, with 30+ years pedigree, that will more than likely satisfy your desires. A number of those who in post in this forum are long-time devotees of such sophisticated surfcraft. Dale

I would think an extra dose of tail rocker and Vee would be in order.

I had a 9’3" G&S “Hot Curl” with a 17" tail. It had a wide nose though and was 23" wide. A great small wave board! The fin was raked and very flexy (nylon) and would spin out if ridden off the tail in head high+ waves. Ridden from the middle, leaning in on the forward rail, allowed the rail to hold it in somewhat better. With an 18" tail, you can anticipate a quick, skatey board. My experience with wide tails in bigger surf is that they want to plane too efficiently at high speeds becoming difficult to control. Maybe a split tail with big twin/quad fins would help? I’m working on such a design now. So far, I’m sticking with a more moderate tail width however.

Dale, As to the foil, I think keeping the thickness in the middle and foiling out the ends is certainly the best ticket to performance. Here in Santa Cruz “Indicators” can hold for a very long time as well as several of the breaks in the Pleasure Point area. I’m looking for something a little more specific than what you’ve pointed out, though I do honor the merit of what you’re saying. I’ve always been one to depart somewhat from the norm but I like to do it with my eyes open. If you can refer me to something specific I’d be most appreciative. Scott, I think a little convex forward as the nose rocker ends is indicated along with the right balance of tail rocker no doubt. Vee in the tail is a must, I agree. John, I have a 9’0"x19.75"x23"x15.5"x3" that surfs very much like your 9’3" I suspect though the way yours is sent up all the power is in the rails. (Just an aside, I’ve never been a fan of flex fins as I feel they weaken the aqua locomotion that a board is capable of but each to his own, some surfers love how they feel, what ever floats your boat.) The rails on mine are harder I suspect and I surf it with small rail fins and an 8" or 9" center-fin of my own design. It has 3.5" nose rocker and 3.25" of tail rocker and is very responsive. 18" of tail may be too much but I wanted to start on the edge of what might be feasible. I have an 8’x17"x21.25"x15.5" with a the ends foiled out that I ride as thruster 2 to 1 and with a starfin when it’s really jamin’ and there no kelp. A bigger version of this one with some variations and a little less nose is what I’m looking toward. So at this point I’m just tinkering with where to go. As I consider the outline and look at my eight footer. The nose should probably wider than 13 and the tail more like 16 or 16.5, who knows? Thanx allot for you input. I’m looking forward any an all opinions and insights. Good Surfin’, Rich

rich, i think too much tail rocker ruins the skate you’d get with the wide tail(increased rocker on an xtra wide tail = too much drag). less rocker will decrease the spinout factor. plenty of vee is good with just a little tail rocker so the board doesn’t track. also less overall rocker will help keep the tail from releasing if you intend to noseride. thin tail - yes. my favorite board right now is 8’8" with a superwide tail so you got my biased opinion. i think your headed in a really fun direction.

rich, i think too much tail rocker ruins the skate you’d get with the wide > tail(increased rocker on an xtra wide tail = too much drag). less rocker > will decrease the spinout factor. plenty of vee is good with just a little > tail rocker so the board doesn’t track. also less overall rocker will help > keep the tail from releasing if you intend to noseride. thin tail - yes.>>> my favorite board right now is 8’8" with a superwide tail so you got > my biased opinion. i think your headed in a really fun direction. Hey Gene, My 8’0" has 2" of tail rocker and 4.25" of nose rocker. I’m thinking a little more tail rock but only a half inch or so and maybe 5" of nose rocker. Will you send me some speck on you 8’8"? Thanx Good Surfin’, Rich

Hey Gene, My 8’0" has 2" of tail rocker and 4.25" of nose > rocker. I’m thinking a little more tail rock but only a half inch or so > and maybe 5" of nose rocker. Will you send me some speck on you > 8’8"?>>> Thanx>>> Good Surfin’, Rich This sounds like a fun project!most of my boards are wide tailed, maxing out at 16.5".An 18" tail is just beggin’ to be made as a Greenough arc/flex tail, that way you can make the rocker a lot flatter for more speed and the flex of the tail will allow you to crank that thing over on turns and surf bigger surf. Have fun and keep us posted on the results!

This sounds like a fun project!most of my boards are wide tailed, maxing > out at 16.5".An 18" tail is just beggin’ to be made as a > Greenough arc/flex tail, that way you can make the rocker a lot flatter > for more speed and the flex of the tail will allow you to crank that thing > over on turns and surf bigger surf. Have fun and keep us posted on the > results! Thanx Matt, , I don’t know how much flex I want in the tail. I hadn’t considered that. I think you’re right that mimimual tail rockers is probably the best bet. 18" may be out of the question for tail width.(16.5" - 17" more like it) Finning the thing is gonna be the key. I’m still early in the brainstroming stage and have written down several speck combinations. Any suggestions on thickness and nose width or any guidance on speck will be appreciated Looking forward to input from those with much greater experience with such experiments than myself-- Good Surfin’, Rich

Thanx Matt,>>> , I don’t know how much flex I want in the tail. I hadn’t considered that. > I think you’re right that mimimual tail rockers is probably the best bet. > 18" may be out of the question for tail width.(16.5" - 17" > more like it) Finning the thing is gonna be the key. I’m still early in > the brainstroming stage and have written down several speck combinations. > Any suggestions on thickness and nose width or any guidance on speck will > be appreciated Looking forward to input from those with much greater > experience with such experiments than myself–>>> Good Surfin’, Rich Rich; sounds like your on the fast track to pure fun–keep it that way and d on’t make a science project out of it–all of your instincts have merit I built a board kinda like what you’re talking about for a friend of mine several years ago and practically everyone that rode it loved it and the last three owners of it were severly oversized for that bd(it was built for a small light guy) the demins on it were 8’6"-16"-213/4"-17" large ultrathin round tail w/ a heavy “v” under the mid to tail area and a generous amount of rocker in the last 10" the board was pure fun and it worked well either as a thruster or with a 7-8"raked flex fin and two 11/2"sides at about a 10% tilt—anyway experimentation is the key to true progress just ask Einstien!!!

Hey cdb, Fun that’s what it’s all about. I’ve talk to a few friends and a couple of shapers about the board and and thought about demensions cause that’s where it all starts. I’m finding it hard to push them beyond 15.5 inches but I’ll keep working on it. As you say it can’t be science it’s got be about instincts that lead you to what will do what you’re hoping for.((8’6"-16"-213/4"-17") is encouraging with the positive feed back. Not many boards like this around though. I thinking 2.875 thickness and thining out the ends quite a bit. The width is right in there, it’s the same as what I was thinking. I’ll need it to get some curve into the tail. I’m thinking a little narrower in the nose though more like 14-15". The tail rocker and vee are gonna be key to the performance and speed with a wide tail like this-- too much rocker and it wants to spin out, too little and it’s too stiff and with vee it’s just the opposite. It takes an artist with alot of experience to put things together right. The voice of experience is always a very important one to listen to. I don’t want to go round on the tail, I’m pretty solid on drawing it into a rounded pin. Hmmm…How much tail rocker? Again I know it aint science but have some numbers to shoot at so I can get the right blank. Then with the templates it’ll all come together much easier. You input is encouraging and most appreciated. Good Surfin’, Rich

rich, when playing around with a new board design i don’t like to pay too much attention to rocker measurements. if your experimenting then just go with your instincts. too many #s can get in the way of the fun of shaping something new. i’d get a 9’6" blank with minimum rocker and cut off the tail at 8’9". then you have plenty of room to mess around with the tail rocker(this would be for a deep “v”). once you finish the board then take a rocker template off of it and make adjustments (if needed) on the next one. the first one might work great or you might have to go back to the drawing board. then you will have the experience of the first one behind you and you can build on that. r&d is where the most fun is in shaping, for me at least. now go get a blank and get started on this thing so we can see it soon. all this r&d talk has me all pumped up!!!

Hi Gene, Thanks for the high sign and the suggestion on the blank. I’m gonna keep this one on the drawing board a little longer. Next step is put the outline on graph paper and see how the lines look and decide on where to go next. Gotta work this morning so I’m off. I’ll check back you never know when someone will have some great tips. Good Surfin’, Rich

Hi Gene,>>> Thanks for the high sign and the suggestion on the blank. I’m gonna keep > this one on the drawing board a little longer. Next step is put the > outline on graph paper and see how the lines look and decide on where to > go next. Gotta work this morning so I’m off. I’ll check back you never > know when someone will have some great tips.>>> Good Surfin’, Rich Rich; I totally agree w/ Gene on the rocker, even though I shape a lot of bds in all different sizes I tend to still eyeball my rockers ,I’m more concerned with staying true to whatever vision I have in my head of what I am creating than trying to hit a set of numbers —but when I’m done I do compare the rocker achieved w/ other rocker templetes just so I know where I went and why–heck sometimes it just makes you feel good to eyeball one ,shape it, throw on a templete just to find out you nailed it! But the bottom line is fun and learning (never stops) so the fact is there is no wrong approach only yours. One tip I practice daily–go with your instincts, listen to advice and get plenty of it but go with what you know; that gut feeling, it will never let you down.

DITTO…Plus having used that 8’10S clark blank i’ve got to say i did’nt like the ride of the final 8’9 board, but that 7’11R is a keeper on every shapeas well as 7’4R, the 9’1Y ???