Was hot coating and realized that brush cleaning was something I have not seen really talked about here and thought I’d pass on a tip learned from an old wooden boat builder in Maine years ago. Basically, take three clean gallon paint cans (unused cans available at paint stores) and number the lids 1-2-3. Pour enough acetone in each so it’s no higher than the length of the bristles. Use can 1 to clean the bulk of the muck off, can 2 next will get the residual out and can 3 the final cleaning. I’ve found that simply standing the brushes in each can for a half hour or so with minimal swirling etc. does most of the work and I’m not splashing acetone all over. I like using good bristle and ox hair brushes as they are well made with well cut bristles for a smoother finish and this cleaning system keeps them like new plus I’ll use the same acetone longer. Can 1 gets a bit funky but it cuts the resin for ages before I have to trash it. Recently switched to some clear plastic tubs with screw tops instead of cans that my 3 1/2" brush fits in and like that I can see the condition of the acetone (jugs were 2 1/2 lb. mixed nuts from Costco) but am watching things should the plastic start breaking down - so far so good after 4 months. Store all in an old cooler for safty’s sake. It’s also handy for quick cleaning of throw aways so you get a bit more use out of them. It’s a great system if you get in the habit of using it and I hope it’s of use to anyone out there.
Eliminate acetone today. Toxic, messy, flammable, stinky. Central nervous system depressant. Sorry Pedro but this stuff does not belong in a 21st century shop.
Greg, If you see this, Ive been round & round with the archives and only find references to acetone when punching in “brush cleaning”. Old dogs can learn new tricks and in this instance would like nothing more than to find a more enviro. and physically friendly way. Any help is always appreciated - that’s why I come here. Thanks - Pedro
There are numerous repacments for acetone today. There one called replacetone and another called ship shape. I’m pretty sure that you can buy Ship Shape at West Marine by the gallon. I think Defender Marine in New York has a replacment they sell as well. I don’t think anyone should be surpised that I personally think polyester resins don’t belong in a 21st century shop. Modern epoxies clean up with soap and water, are low vapor, solvent free, clearer, stronger and only slightly more expensive to use. What are you guys waiting for?
…I can get a gallon of poly for 14.00 a gallon,and 7.00 for acetone,that’s 21.00,and actually the acetone last longer than the resin so that’s a off est. …Big problem where to get surfboard epoxy,and blanks…@what price? …I’m not unfamilar with epoxy as I use it with laminating woods for skateboards in my handcranker press,but this epoxy is too crude for surfboards,and I get it free. …Tell me where and when?Herb
$21 to laminate a polyester board. We sell a one and a half quart set for $26. That’s plenty to do a shortboard. No solvents are needed so that’s your total cost. That’s a $5 difference guys. If you buy in larger quantities you get significant price breaks. By the drum you pay less than $30 a gallon. And your yeild is triple. Above I posted a new topic. In it it outlines our use levels in our shop. Check that out. Then think about this, when you pay for polyester your paying for something that’s weak, toxic and inefficent. 35% of it (the styrene) goes away during the cure cycle. That’s the cheap part that makes it cheap to start with. And you get to breath it. Such a deal! I had a board builder who used to be a garage guy and grew a business out of it tell me the other day, “yea, I used to use your resin on Clark foam but I had to stop. The boards were lasting to long and I needed more business.” Instead of looking at how much material you get for your $21, look instead at what you REALLY getting! Cheap, toxic, stinky material that makes weak boards. And THATS the bottom line.
To get a quality surfboard epoxy call: 321-779-2369 or 321-223-5276. We UPS everyday.
…I was told that epoxy and polyurethane foam blanks are a bad combo,is that true?I heard they delam(and have witness this).Not no little insignifigant thing,but big 15" mushroom types.This is after minor use. …Also the resin isn’t the costly issue as much as the fiberglass use.Do you use more fiberglass when using your resin with Clark blanks? …I’ve done a couple boards with opencell styro,and epoxy,it went okay,and the boards snapped just as easy,but if you say it can be done with Clark foam,you now have my compete and undivided attention.Herb
…Oh yeah,do you need to seal the clark blanks with something like white glue,or can it be put down directly?Herb
Herb, I`ve built a number of Clark foam (PU), “E”/“S” glass and epoxy boards… never any problems… resilient, strong and light.
Oh yeah… I laminated directly to the blank. No fillers, barrier coats or primers were necessary.
CCP has a whole line of Acetone replacement line called Thermaclean. They have a ton of Non Haz products that work with a wide variety of products to replace the evils of acetone. You can buy the product through Composites One www.compositesone.com Sluggo
So Greg, What method and solvents to you use to take care of your brushes? Thanks for all this great info how to manage epoxy laminations! Mahalo, Rich
Greg, Appreciate the info on acetone alternatives - have a West Marine near and will be there. I originally just wanted to try and save some folks some time, fumes and acetone but this thread sure took off…(I still think the 1-2-3 system is superior no matter what medium you’re using) and Greg, I think you are way ahead of the curve in your endeavours. Too bad some of the fat cats in the industry aren’t as concerned as you obviously are - read the Surfer Mag piece in the Dec. '02 issue and Rusty in particular sounded like he couldn’t be bothered unless he had a near exclusive on alternative technology. Half expected him to say,“Greed is good!” And I own 2 Desert Islands! Thanks again and for the piece today. Pedro
Herb, Many epoxies are made to be somewhat flexible. Systems 3 for example. These resins don’t protect Clark blanks against denting well enough. Any resin that is very flexible will dent worse but it will resist cracking when impacted. A high modulus (stiff) resin resists denting but may crack easier. So every resin must be designed to have the correct modulus for the fiber it’s being used with. Believe it or not hardly anyone knows this. Not in the marine or even the aerospace industry. A high modulus resin is going to really perform with a fiber like Carbon or S-glass or even a high fiber e-glass. A low modulus resin will be preferable with synthetic fibers like nylon, olefin or polyester. The reason is that these synthetic fibers have greater elongation. Put a stiff resin with these and the fiber won’t support the resin and the resin cracks and fails. Likewise with a very flexible resin, the resin fails to support the fiber and the fiber fails. That’s why we make two resins, one high modulus (stiff) and another high impact (flexible). There are some in this business that feel simply more flexibility is better but that isn’t always the case. As with all composites surfboards are a combination of all the components and within the combination is where the ultimate board lies. And yes our 2000 resin (high modulus) works great with Clark foam.
Herb, You don’t generally need to seal Clark blanks. We don’t. If your sealing EPS we use spackling compound. We like Red Devil or Dap lightweight spackling compound. Clyde Beatty still uses microballoons and epoxy to seal which works well. Lately we’ve been using EDRO foam and not sealing at all and this seems to be working as well. To seal with spackling paste, water down the paste so it has the consistency of mayonnaise. Then squeegee it onto the blank like a foam stain. The stuff will thicken up as you work so you may have to add more water at some point. You can do both sides at once as the spackling paste doesn’t tend to stick to the rack. After the paste has dried lightly fine sand with a softpad and screen and your ready to laminate.
Rich, Thanks. We don’t clean our brushes. We’ve had problems in the past with contamination from dirty acetone causing fish eyes in our hot coats. So we just use the brush for one batch and pitch it. They only cost $.50 so their hardly worth cleaning. Certainly not worth having acetone around for. Now if we did a lot of glossing then I may have a tupperware tub with to keep an expensive brush in. But I’ve gotten pretty good glosses with the cheap ones. Just have to watch the shedding.
…Greg,are you coating you epoxy lams w/ epoxy or polyster?(hotcoats/gloss coats).Sorry if this seems redundant.Herb