Build thread + questions (2nd Build) Big Guy Shortboard from a US Blank 610A

General Discussion
1

 

Hello Swaylockians

I tried to post this up a couple of days ago but it seems to have disappeared, It looks like the problems are over now so I hope it sticks.

**Background**

I'm just starting out on my second build which I plan to complete over the holidays.

I did the a couple of years ago on a course and I was pleased with how it turned out (the thread is here) however the low volume and high rocker mean its a pain in the ar$e to paddle and  only works in OH waves, It also sometimes feels as though the board is taking me surfing, not the other way around.

I now plan build a thruster for UK summer waves and want to combine the opposing goals of minimum length and plenty of curve to keep it manoeuvrable (ideally without the need to shuffle up and down the board) whilst maintaining easy paddling to get in early and keep the wave count

NB I'm 30y/o 6'2 220lbs I'm farily fit but carry a little timber round the middle (rugby player). I don't get down to the sea much more than one weekend a month..

 

**Design**

I've got a 6'10" US blank and plan to make a  low rocker 6'0 - 6'2 ish  board with all the width that I can get out of it (about 22") and plenty of thickness.

I plan on giving it a rounded tail that gains width quickly, and a nose that somewhere between a fish and shortboard - If i'm honest I just plan to make the nose look right. I Intend foil the rails quite hard and thin and at this point have no idea what to do by way of concave or  V though generally think less is more.

 Do you think this design would work for me? should I be looking to keep more of the length of the blank?

I've had a play on AKU shaper here is a 6'0 which I've managed to squeeze 46 litres from and mocked up a couple of card templates which look ok.

I'm off outside now to make some racks :-)

 

2

Just a quick question, I’m thinking of spray painting the board and sealing with clearcoat (after ive hotcoated and sanded) can anyone recomend a suitable supplier (rattle cans) in the uk?

3

Built my racks today out of a wooden pallet and some old plywood.

Here is the base, mans best friend lending a paw.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_141503.jpg[/IMG]

I've not seen a stand with plywood uprights before but it seemed like a much simpler solution than building something from the pallet. I decided to make a template from the card the blank was shipped in

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_145824.jpg[/IMG]

This was cut & applied this to the plywood

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_150905.jpg[/IMG]

The uprights bolt to the base - I've added multiple holes at 4" intervals so I can raise or lower it as needed

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_170321.jpg[/IMG]

I gave the ply a quick blast with a sander to smooth the edges and covered them with pipe insulation held down with duck tape

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_173958.jpg[/IMG]

A test fit of the board + To make the channel a little tighter i've added a second layer of foam - it sits in place happily by its self without need for tape so I can take it in and out as needed.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_174710.jpg[/IMG]

 

I'm not over the moon about this dent that the blank picked up in shipping as I'm pl anning to use all the width that I can.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_174510.jpg[/IMG]

 

So here is my first go at a template

Side

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_174837.jpg[/IMG]

Back

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_174926.jpg[/IMG]

Front

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121221_174914.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not happy with the outline yet, i'm thinking of stretching it out a bit - any thoughts?

4

If I could offer some advise:

Skip the board cad crap.  Go to http://www.blendingcurves.com/ and find a template that you like.  Print it out, cut it out accurately and tape it all together.  If there isn’t a big enough template on the site for what you want take the template of your choice to a blueprint shop and have them enlarge it to your desired size on a blueprint copier.  A crap template will yield a crap board.

Also the 6’10A is a great blank but beware that your undersized template will mean you will have to mow an awful lot of foam.  Better in the future to get a blank as close as possible to the finished size of the board.

 

5

You should be able to heat-gun out most of that rail dent, but you still can’t use all the outline width on a PU blank. Best to stay at least 1.25cm inside the outer edge; there’s usually some unstable foam out there. Max width from 6’10’‘A would be 23’'.

Those ply portions of your racks could probably use some bracing to keep them from being too twangy also. I would advise a bit deeper yoke and a ‘‘lip’’ on inside (to hold board on 35-45d angle while doing rail), but since you’ve already got it padded up and all just save that tip for later…

And make a clean template, man! It’s great practice for shaping, and you’ll get a much better outline.

Other than that, Merry Christmas lol.

6

Hi Mako, 

That looks like a great resource, im not planning on copying a template from board cad (or anywhere else) I just find it helps visualise the shape and sort the dimensions in my mind. As to the 610a, I wanted the width and mild rocker from that blank. I think im going to increase the length of my template a bit to take advantage of the volume in the board.

 

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the heat gun tip, ill give that a whirl! Re the ply rack its rock solid-i was able to belt sand the edges with it assembled -Its good ply though, maybe an inch thick with nine plys. Do you have a link to a rack as you describe? im not quite sure what you mean.

Im not sure I can get a 23 out of that blank, 22 looks about the limit.

Oh and i plan to make a fresh template im a bit embarased about that one!

 

7

If your ply is that thick, it will be solid. I guess I couldn’t see it that well (or didn’t look close enough at the pics).

It’s time well-spent to make a good template. Watch your curves to avoid getting ‘‘ears’’ in the nose. 

8

LOVE build threads…Post a ton of pics if possible.   Good luck, looking forward to the rest…

9

yeah its quite thick and stiff its also massivley heavy, ive never seen ply like it before!

 

What are ears in the nose?

10

Ears are spots where the the rate of curvature in the outline changes unnaturally, usually the result of trying to go from a longer, straighter mid-section curve into a nose curve without a proper blend.

11

Thanks, They are a pet hate of mine, so ill be sure to avoid them!

 

12

…as MD is saying: try to make a good template.

I can add that a template is almost “the whole thing”; I mean, if you do not have a clean template with a “pure” curve you ll finish with a head ache; almost impossible to clean perfectly the rails, lines, etc. You can observe this when you put the shape on the rail on the shaping rack and check all the curvatures on one rail and rockers + foam distribution.

Spend most time in the template or in more than one (is better to have more than one curve to compare).

May be you think another thing right now, but I bet all my shaping tools that in the future you ll remember this thing about pure curves and templates.

I repeat again: spend most of the time in doing, checking and rechecking the templates.

I see many rookies shapes here, and almost all look bad,  do not have pure curves and is for the template man, believe me.

EDIT to say that only if you want the best work you can handle, and try your best to build a fine board, if that is not your motif well…still the board will ride more or less.

13

So today I started by heating that dent -Cheers Mike!

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_165819.jpg[/IMG]

Then I had a go at making a few more templates, I decided to increase the length to 6'4 and add some more volume to the template. I went through a few designs - and ended up with this.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_160234.jpg[/IMG]

So then it was time to draw it on the foam.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_164445.jpg[/IMG]

And take a deep breath...

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_165645.jpg[/IMG]

I'm taking the max possible out of the blank so was a little concerned about the dent but it went ok this is this is the rough cut outline http://s879.beta.photobucket.com/user/shandyout/media/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_171448.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

And here it is after a quick sand

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121222_182957-1.jpg[/IMG]

I'll finish up the sanding tomorrow and christen my new power plain.

I'm thinking a subtle single concave in the back third of the board - anyone got any thoughts for or against this or alternative suggestions?

14

So today I started by finishing sanding the outline - there wasnt much to do but I wanted to take a look at it with fresh eyes, then it was time to mow some foam

Its going to be a 6'4 x19 x22 x17 1/2

 [IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_133128.jpg[/IMG]

 [IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_133128.jpg[/IMG]

 

NB the powerplain is a non modified Hitachi - a 30th birthday gift from my Sister (Shelley if your reading this thankyou) As i'm very in experienced I was happy with the shallow cuts though if I do a few more i'll look into DIY modifying it.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_133146.jpg[/IMG]

The workshop/garage i'm in is my parents, and is full of stuff so I thought I would take advantage of the break in the rain and minimise the dust by heading outside.

Mowing foam -excuse the sunglasses - I'm not a hipster buy my googles kept fogging so I was looking for some eyewhere with anti-fog. The sunglasses weren't any better.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_141212.jpg[/IMG]

Here is the underside after a couple of passes

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_135335.jpg[/IMG]

I added a kick to the nose

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_140938.jpg[/IMG]

Haven the dog was not so sure about the nose kick

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_135314.jpg[/IMG]

I decided against any concave after extensive reading on here so I quickly hit it with the surform and it was time to head back inside as it was getting dark

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_143922.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_151818.jpg[/IMG]

Next up was shaping the rails, I like mine super thin and turned down almost all the way through the board.

I started by drawing a line around the around the rail about an inch from the base and another about 6'' into the deck I then knocked the foam between them out with the powerplain followed by the surform I used a tool made from a pencil and a lump of foam to draw the lines.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_171050.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_173438.jpg[/IMG]

 

Marking up at 1/2 inch up the rail and about half the way into the last cut and repeated the process. I wasnt brave enough for the power plain this time.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_182205.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_184227.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_185222.jpg[/IMG]

I then took a sanding block to the ridges and rounded out the bottom of the rails to my desired shape (super thin)

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_202021.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_202047.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_201425.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_200903.jpg[/IMG]

 

So next up is adding the fin boxes which should be an adventure as i've never done future fins before and dont have a template or a router. If anyone has any tips on positioning for a thruster setup with such a wide tail I would be keen to here them.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121223_203923-1.jpg[/IMG]

15

I’d say put the fins at 11’’ and 3 1/2’‘, toe the fronts 3/16’‘-1/4’‘, and 1 1/8’’ -1 1/4’’ off rail.

Couple of other tips - having a non-adjustable planer is OK for skinning and thicknessing. But it looks like you are running it straight and only holding it with one hand. Your front hand should be around the knob or cupped around front of shoe, and the planer should be run on an angle so that the baseplate runs on previous cut and the shoe is over the work.

The right side of your outline has a long dip ahead of the wp. As reverb said, it’s important to get that outline curve just right before you move on to the rest of shaping process. Youth and enthusiasm conflicts with some of this methodical approach lol, so maybe you just try to learn from this one OK?

16

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the tips, I really apprecate you takeing the time to input.

I’ll try to put the fins as you suggest. It had not occured to me to put the painer on an angle as you discuss, I’ll definatly take that on board for the next one.

The dip on the right side of the outline is from cutting inside the dent that was in the blank I tried to hide it by smoothing the curve into the nose but I think that i’ve been trying to force too much width out of it and should have pulled the nose a little more from that point forwards still we live and learn.

I’m looking forward to getting it glased and in the water I’ve really enjoyed shaping it and feel it is a fair remdition of what I had in my minds eye. Depending on how this one goes I would like to find a wider blank and try to go an inch+ wider and use the extra volume to put more fluid curves into the next one.

As a matter of interest would you have gone with a flat bottom for this board or done something more interesting?

 

17

Good attitude, Ryan. Flat is a good bottom shape for high-volume small wave boards. You might think about adding a little V in tail on similar wide-tailed boards in future if you have trouble getting this one to go rail-to-rail.

Another thought, I didn't catch that the board ended up being 6'4'', you could move the fins up a little (1/4'' to 1/2'') from what I suggested earlier.

cheers!

18

Thanks again i’ll move them forwards. once its in the water i’ll give a little thought to how easily it goes rail to rail and post up my thoughts on this thread.

Yeah it was a bit of a shocking jump from 6’ - 6’4, I was struggling to find the volume (width) that wanted and figured It would be better to play it safe than end up missing waves!

I’ve had a quick play @ droping the cad outline over one of the photos, its far from symmetrical but I guess thats all part of the process.

19

Happy Christmas everyone.

Its been another interesting day for the build...

My first step was to draw the markings on the board for the fins using the dimensions Mike suggested, I dont have a shapers square but figured it would be useful so decided to make my own tool by printing a grid on to acetate paper

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_125515.jpg[/IMG]

Cuting the template for the future fins without the router and jig was a pain in the 4rse

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_133601.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_133549.jpg[/IMG]

I was able to get them to fit ok but the finish wont look very good round the edge of the base.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_135044.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_123615.jpg[/IMG]

Looks like I was a bit marginal on the rail thickness - you can see the darker fin plug through the foam

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_143419.jpg[/IMG]

NB  this is why i'm trialling futures - Seabase (my supplier) doesnt bother with the genuine FCS plugs and supply the cr4py knockoffs instead. Spot the knackered thread :-(

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_125616.jpg[/IMG]

Any how it was then time to glass the bases in place, I decided to do this with the fins in situ to be sure the  cant was correct.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_152323.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_152330.jpg[/IMG]

Once the resin had started to go off I decided to remove the tape and pull the fins out, I'm glad that I did as I'd got some resin on them and they were t keen on coming out.

Next up was the race track / footballs/ whatever they are called bits of cloth for the fins, I cut these out and taping over the slots Laminated them

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_175854.jpg[/IMG]

Im not 100% happy with the results so far but still we live and learn.

 Once the resin had hardened a little I trimmed of the high points with a razor blade, after a while longer they were dry enough to  allow me to get on with glassing bottom.

 NB the weather here is lousy at the moment - I've got 4 heaters set up in the garage to help the process along a bit.

The first step was to build some glassing racks as the shaping ones were to wide to do the laps, I used the same base as before and just bolted them on

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_213343.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_214234.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_215820.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_215955.jpg[/IMG]

I decided to tape the deck up so I could do a cut lap, I dont plan on doing  a tint I just fancied trying it

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_222015.jpg[/IMG]

I layed the glass over and mixed some resin and started  to squeegee, I realised prety quickly that I'd not made enough up so had to make some more as quickly as I could, again I didnt mix enough so had to rush like mad to make the third batch.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_225014-1.jpg[/IMG]

This is how it currently stands,

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_234547.jpg[/IMG]

So all in not a great days work, lets hope tomorrow works out better.

20

So while the resin was tacky I cut the laps

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121225_010659.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121225_114130.jpg[/IMG]

I'm doing 2layers of 6oz on the deck and one on the bottom.

The cut was clean enough that there was no need to sand ;-) so I was on to the top.  I tried to do a great big lap for extra strength.

Mixing up some resin

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121224_225021.jpg[/IMG]

I didn't do cut laps this time - i'm not sure how I would cut them without cutting the board? Any how I was left with one hell of a mess!

I got to the worst of the mess with a blade

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121225_120413.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_172009.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121225_151951.jpg[/IMG]

Still its nothing that an orbital sander couldn't fix

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_171941-1.jpg[/IMG]

Sanding round the futures was fun.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_172023-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_181647.jpg[/IMG]

 

I figured it was about time to install the leash plug

I used a big wood drill bit to cut through the glass, It wasn't the ideal tool but it made a hole which I guess is the point.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_185722.jpg[/IMG]

I chopped about in the inside of the board with a stanley knife blade and scratched through to the glass on the other a bit to give it something to grab hold of

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_193508.jpg[/IMG]

As i'd done enough sanding for one day I decided to mask the hole and rig up some blue tack to stop glass getting on the plug, I also buit a duck tape handle to make it a little easier to hold.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_193517.jpg[/IMG]

I mixed up a little pot of resin and added some chopped up glass for extra strength.

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_194534.jpg[/IMG]

Whilst the resin was going off I was looking for ways to entertain myself so dug out some callipers and extended them with some chopsticks it measures up 2 3/4" thick

Any how It didnt take long for the resin to harden enough to be pulled off and trimmed down

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_210134.jpg[/IMG]

And then it was time for the  Hot Coat the deck, I masked the rail as low as I could

I mixed up 500g of resin and added a 10ml of wax styrene and 10ml of catalyst and get painting

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_212235.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab354/shandyout/Surfboard%20Build/20121226_212303.jpg[/IMG]

Hopefully it will have kicked enough to flip now so I can hotcoat the other side tonight.

Rough plan of the next step

1. Sand

2. Spray paint (thiking of using rattle cans from halfords,

3. Spray with clear coat (unless you guys think I should use resin instead?

4. Polish

5. Wax and surf.

I'm off to see my grandparents for a couple of days which is going to impact my timeline - I would ideally like to have it in the water on New years day.