i agree. the combustion engine is outdated for driving our fat asses 1/2 block to get a drink. or a surf. here in southern california, don’t even think about rollin the window down while in traffic- eewww. hydrogen power for vehicles.
Hallelujah, Shaper !!!
Why the fear of acetone ? The US Food and Drug Administration lists acetone as an approved food additive !Cut and paste following link into address bar and find out: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?FR=73.1
John, I agree, hydrogen power is almost here. It’s the last great technological energy change we will see in this lifetime. It’s about time. Acetone is a VOC. It will be restricted. Already is in many countries. And why pay for something you don’t need. Do you guys think that environmentalism is a waste of time? Are you guys giving up that easy? Has Noodle’s futile attitude finally gotten to you? Is everyone just ready to throw in the sqeegee and ride Chinese? This is what I meant about the desire to do it better.
I’m definately not giving up Greg but i do think surfers need to wise-up big time re. our use of cars and jumbojets.But the whole “Search…” mythology needs to be re-written as we all covet surf travelling - it’s rammed down our necks by every clothing company travelogue surf video that hits the market !!!
I checked the link John@outbreak provided and sure enough, acetone is listed BUT only as a diluent for inks to mark fruits and vegetables and “NO RESIDUE” is presented as a restriction. I’m not trying to pick an argument with John but I take it that means it really isn’t OK to eat or drink the stuff. It does get into the human body by breathing and directly through skin and, if I remember correctly, in small amounts, gets broken down in the liver. To be honest, I don’t trust that agency anyway. The FDA allows all kinds of shit in the foods we eat and there are some fairly convincing arguments that some of that stuff is a factor behind cancer, heart disease and other problems that plague us. Granted, a lot of our health problems are of our own choosing but there is a long history of politicians and government agencies being blinded by $$$$$. It always scares me when a list of banned ingredients or chemicals suddenly appears - especially after I’ve been using them for about 30 years! That said, here is more info from yet another government agency… http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts21.html
John, when you think about 2-3 liters of petrochemicals per board, we’re not talking about a small amount when you consider the large scope of the surfboard industry. I agree completely with you about the fact that automobiles are far more polluting, though I do not agree with using this as a justification for not trying to make a more environmentally concious surfboard. This same argument could be used to justify driving a automobile because potentially nuclear power plants around the country could be far mor harmful to the environment. I am not motivated to build a “greener” surfboard because I think it is cool. I Do not believe people should pick and choose whether to be environmentally concious in one aspect of their life and not another. I feel it should be something that each of us considers in all that we do. I own and operate a small design/build company that is dedicated to using environmentally concious and sustainable building materials. I drive a vehicle that runs on recycled soy bean oil. I apologize for preaching. -Danny
The car may cause bigger polution problems, but - as Daniel mentioned - that fact cannot justify other harmful products since there should be " something that is more harmful " all the time. Do what you can do: Reduce the use of motor powered vehicles and build greener boards. By the way: Greg, is there a website with more information about your epoxy resins?
I don’t have a website for Resin Resaerch right now. Actually the best info on our products is either through a fax machine @ 321-779-2369 or right here on sways. I’ll attempt to answer any question posed here.
I ain’t bitchin 'bout how other people live their lives. “Environmentalists” are. I’m all about cleaning up the environment, but through realistic means. That means making cars, boats and planes that actually consume less crude oil per passenger mile, walking or biking whenever possible, and building more efficient power plants and factories. But economic factors will get us where we want to go in all these areas. All I see from the “green” crowd is culture, a culture which demands and feeds a self-serving bureaucracy. The environmentalist culture isn’t about the environment. It’s about power. The left vilifies SUV’s that carry 8 people even though (or because) they are capable of carrying large families. But try and threaten some self-proclaimed “environmentalist’s” all-important trip to surf… Calamity! We have to bum a ride. Great, since SUV’s are so evil try begging a 4-person, 4-board surf trip from a Prius owner… “Wul maybe SUV should be allowed for surfers.” This isn’t about the environment. It’s about controlling other people… political correctness. Sure epoxy boards use less resin, lots less if making a “standard” strength surfboard. Resin is used to bond fiberglass for strength. Epoxy does that more efficiently than ortho polyester. How much more efficiently? Basically similar to vinylester resin, a cheap resin that’s been around for a few decades. So why haven’t we been using vinylester resin all along? Because vinylester is brown. The “caring” surf culture looks down on anybody who’s board isn’t in lock step with their view of how boards are supposed to look… today. There’s so much hypocrisy and oppression in the “caring” freedom of the leftist counter culture that I couldn’t begin to cover it here. Talk to the mom of the Florida 12 year old killed 3 days ago by one of our precious alligators. My best advice to dabbling “environmentalists”, stop suckering into the fake rhetoric of self-serving guardians of the environment. Get a life. Invent processes and products which offer people the functions they require in a more “earth” efficient way. Do these things and stop demanding that other people suffer needlessly for your political agenda.
“My best advice to dabbling “environmentalists”, stop suckering into the fake rhetoric of self-serving guardians of the environment. Get a life. Invent processes and products which offer people the functions they require in a more “earth” efficient way. Do these things and stop demanding that other people suffer needlessly for your political agenda.” Noodle,June 21. Sorry to burst ya bubble Noodle, but this is what Greg’s been trying to do for 20 years !!!
Hey guys, i aint trying to minimilise the severity of the VOC’s used in board building; i just was placing the comment about epoxy chemistry into context Vs. that of polyester resin !The post by Paul Jenson (June 18) insinuated that because epoxy has some acetone involved in it’s production it has to be a bad guy ! But to ignore it as a viable alternative to polyester on these grounds alone seems silly compared to the risks of using styrene monomer-based resin.Personally, i’m itching to get hold of some of that DHP stuff but the guys never return my e-mails ! Share it with the rest of us mortals !! Is it as good and clean as it sounds, anyone ? Greg, what’s your take on it ?
Acetone is reacted into epoxy. It is not a vehicle like styrene in polyester or vinylester. Sometimes this is hard to explain but I’ll try. Water is one of the chemicals used in urethane foam. This doesn’t make urethane foam water based. Water is just a chemical used in the reaction. Water consists of hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen atom is very reactive and reacts with the TDI forming a polymer. In other words H2O (water) is just another chemical in this application. In epoxy the acetone is reacted with phenol in the same manner to create a prepolymer. This prepolymer is then reacted with epiclorohydren to make epoxy resin. Styrene in polyester is not reacted into the mix the same way which leads to the VOC issues. There are no VOC solvents in our epoxies so there are no VOC issues. Likewise the urethane resins being promoted by AST are, like epoxy, “high solids” resins and also have no VOC issues.
Greg, is it possible to use uv-hardener with your epoxy resins? Thanks