I’d like to make a motion that we start a pool for how long this thread will go. I still think it might make 20 pages.
“20 pages…” Ha! This isn’t yellow v. eps man!
I thought what Honolulu wrote, but then again, if the proof is in the pudding, who cares why it works…
Now, the funky advertising in something else all together… Like the venturi effect…
There’s what works in the realm of surfboards, and there’s hydrodynamic scientific facts…
And seldom, it seems, the twain meet. (Save the MVG’s and tubercals… Ha!)
Sweet - I got it up to page five!!! Ha!
wow..welllll...i could care less...if you like it, buy, or think it works...
i don't get a dime from bullitfin
and there are only two main criteria for me...for surf stuff
1) does it work..improve my performance, etc..?
2) do i have more fun using it...?
ifit looks cool...or has some artistry...then that is just gravy
my only question to you critics..is...have you tried it?...alot?
i have..aaaaaaaaaaaaand..
here's my honest feedback on these boards..on all of them i felt more speed down the line...that was a given for me..
1)9.6 josh miller performer clone ..works well...yet i did notice some side slippage when noseriding..
i would atribute this to the length..9.25"...i like a 10-11" fin for that purpose...like the true ames 10" josh fabrow flex fin
which i usually use
2) 8.6 pearson arrow/dane perlee frankenspud(sorta hot generation shape)..works great...
good speed... trim...and i can noseride easier ..probably the board i will use it the most on..consistantly(.i usually use a the greeno 9.75" 4a..or gl 10" flex..on this board)
3) 7.0 pearson arrow dane perlee stub ...2+1 setup. is my favorite setup for this board(along with bonzer3 )
and i usually use a true ames 9.75" greeno 4a with those tiny turbo tunnel side bites..you make those larry?
or small fcs sidebites with a fibre glas fin co. gt orca fin 8.5".. which i got from larry
this board also likes a single setup...a gl flex fin 9.5-10" wide base...from larry
anywho..it worked really well...lotssa speed,,screaming cutbacks..
4)6.6 pearson arrow dane perlee moonfish..i usually use the 12" spoonfin( i don't understand how this fin can work so well..) made by orange which i got from thalia surf shop...with two tiny 1/2 moonside bites from rainbow fin co...i also use a bonzer 3 setup all fins by rainbow fin co..soo i used a 2+1..the bullitfin with those tiny turbo tunnel sides and it worked really well...very good speed...and held on steep stuff
and finally 5) 7.6 greg liddle grande burrito hull....i usually use the sides greg made, and a 9.5" narrow base gl flex fin now this board has been modified for east coast conditions..(yet i think this will work well anywhere) so it can turn from the tail if i need to ..sorta like brian hilber's MP, and greg's m3p
first i digress...i have been a super hull advocate in santa cruz..especially at sewers, and rockview...along with bonzers...(so i am used to criticism...doesn't bother me..i respect everyone's point of view..as long as it isn't personal..).and minisimmons, etc..and few people believe those ideas work...in fact my best bud thinks i'm nuts about hulls...well they work for me..in fact they work great..also .i prefer the bonzer3..to the bonzer5...hurts my knees..
back to the hull....it worked okay...when i wanted to turn from the tail..it work fine...it is stiffer...felt like a true ames skip frye flex fin,or a greeno 4a..however, i couldn't get that flex fin release..and it did inhibit that rail to rail feel...
i have tried standard fins on this board just for shits and giggles..to really appreciate the difference a flex fin makes..
.yet i think it would need to have more flex above the bulb to deliever a true hull fin feel..
so maybe it's a good fin for the fineline MP, or liddle m3p..
however, i think it's too much to ask of a fin to be a great down the line speed fin, which improves your noseriding...
and be a hull flex fin...sorry ron..just my opinion..
as far as this thread...is concerned...i dunno...i got nothing more to add(vertise)
"wisdom tells me i am nothing.love tells me i am everything. between the two my life flows." -n. maharaj
Thanks dansan for sharing review. NOW that's what I call surf Science. Good data my friend. Bottom line is you are having FUN(-: Mahalo,Larry
thank-you larry..thank-you...
if it ain't fun..why do it?
wisdom tells me i am nothing. love tells me i am everything.between the two my life flows.- n. maharaj
Graphic text updated to better reflect true meaning
So in the end it looks like the bullshit levels out about halfway between the Marketing Hype and Swaylocks skepticism… onwards to page 6!
Haha, yes the “science” page is very vulnerable.
Someone said that Dansan and I are advertising. Try to understand this, We are only customers with no financial interest so you might call it an endorsement, but not a advertisement. We like the way the fin worked under our feet and have stated that, plain and simple.
Unlike many of you I’m skeptical whenever “science” or theory is placed above road tests.
So, in short, Ron’s page is bullshit and all the other half baked jabbering about science I’ve seen here is bullshit. Larry’s pictures comparing this fin to something he’s seen before is bullshit. And calling on some guy that has tape on the bridge of his glasses that never surfed is bullshit.
Ok there, was that long enough to get to page six.
Given the positive “road tests” quite possibly it works well for another reason…Maybe the addition to the fin base acts more like the blunt nose of a submarine than like the bulb on a freighter?
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/frontal-area-resisantance-vs-wetted-surface-21502.html
[quote="$1"]
Haha, yes the "science" page is very vulnerable.
Someone said that Dansan and I are advertising. Try to understand this, We are only customers with no financial interest so you might call it an endorsement, but not a advertisement. We like the way the fin worked under our feet and have stated that, plain and simple.
Unlike many of you I'm skeptical whenever "science" or theory is placed above road tests.
So, in short, Ron's page is bullshit and all the other half baked jabbering about science I've seen here is bullshit. Larry's pictures comparing this fin to something he's seen before is bullshit. And calling on some guy that has tape on the bridge of his glasses that never surfed is bullshit.
Ok there, was that long enough to get to page six.
[/quote]
WOOOO!!!!!! Gene, Easy my friend, I never said I seen the blub at the base of the fin before read my posts. I stated that I am very aware of the blub concept in the performance world like the tanker ship. The picture I showed is a fin with a flared base which is in the same as the Bull fin in the performance world with a different look. I spent 10 years with George Downing who had a bullet tip, Doug Mann who used the same marketing concept with the Football fin and Larry McElheuy with the Foot Fin. The UL red fin I posted was done by freestyle fins in Texas with the BUMP (BLUB) at the base which never worked in the THEORY or CONCEPT.as stated like the tanker ships.
At the end of all this no one ever said the Bull fin wasn't fun and didn't worked, we are all saying the marketing angle is a joke. The guy with the glasses who possibly doesn't surf knows how the ship runs and the guy making the claims his fin works like the blub on a tanker dosen't know much about boats but surfs. What I do know and I do surf, Windsurf and I do know some things about boats since I grew up around them, is that that Blub of the bow comes into " Play at a point of speed that the tanker gets to" in the surf world you never get to that point of speed because you are always turning. In Windsurfing I never experienced the bump in the leading edge of the football fit until I reached a speed of over 25 miles hr on water, so Gene yes I am aware of the concept. Yes your friend is the first with a BLUB at the base of a fin, but not the first to market the concept of a tanker ship bow.
Again apples to oranges and at the end of the day the marketing has nothing to do with the fin. All I said!
How I would have maybe stated this in a marketing world would have gone something like this: UNIQUE LOOKING FIN WITH A SPECIAL FOIL ON A PROVEN OUTLINE BY GENE COOPER IN A LIGHTWEIGHT MATERIAL TO IMPROVE YOUR SURFING EXPERIENCE Just a thought, but at the end of all this it's a BRO thread helping a friend out and that's cool.
Mahalo,Larry
Same concept different look (-:
It looks to me like an upsidedown airplane wing, not a ships bow. My guess is that it creates lift, which pulls the tail down into the water. Kind of like the spoon and the tap water experiment.
Here's another take on the "bulb at the base of the fin" kinda sorta LOL. Trying different stuff no matter how crazy, and sharing what works for you, is all cool in my book.
Advertising hype is advertising hype and its a reality of our world, like it or not. Products fail or flourish, empires rise or fall, based on nothing more than advertising hype. Look at "Better Than Botox?". Media stars make millions with miniscule amounts of actual talent but boatloads of media hype. Wish it weren't so, but that's life as we know it hahaa.
Huckleberry, That is a work of ART! Wood is hard to work with and that is pretty cool my friend. Nice foil on that fin also. Thanks for sharing. Mahalo, Larry
[quote="$1"]
It looks to me like an upsidedown airplane wing, not a ships bow. My guess is that it creates lift, which pulls the tail down into the water. Kind of like the spoon and the tap water experiment.
[/quote]
We all see things in a different light for sure. Yes my friend this fin had the same marketing concept by Doug as a tanker ship. Mahalo, Larry
huckfin,
i am all ears...
what is the dealio with the "blister" ?
that is beautiful...
except
next time make it clear and put in some 50 calibers
like the a B-17...;-)
wisdom tells me i am nothing. love tells me i am everything. between the two my life flows.-n. maharaj
Larry, come on, the UL fin has a cheesy tab left in the leading edge and the flared fin just replicates a glass on (that one I like). I see no relation to the fin we’re talking about.
I do believe your description is probably a better tac than that on the “science” page.
The reason the fin works may not perfectly align with the theory presented, but it does work.
I reshaped the bullet fin that I have in my board so the size and template fits the board, so it’s not the comet template that attracts me.
The bro thread thing? Give me a break, that’s insulting. You and I are friends and have had many discussions, you know my commitment to functional design.
Bull Fin? Why would you demean somebody elses product like that? A little guy who’s a total outsider comes up with something fresh and you call his product names? Come on Larry, you’ve been at it a long time and you’re one of the top fin guys in the business, you don’t need to act like a school yard bull-y.
Huck, that wood board is insane! The bulb looks very coanda-ish. I can totally see that sucking the tail down and rolling the board on the rail to facilitate turning. Beautiful.
Easy Gene, I am not bulling anyone. It has nothing to do with fin design. It has to do with comments my friend and not fresh marketing at that. Sorry if your friend's feelings got hurt, but look at alot of my friends in the industry that got hurt with bullsh-t marketing. I am tried of marketing hype PERIOD. Hope your friend does well and with you being involved and testing things he should because you are one of the last artist still shaping a few boards and keeping the history alive. Mahalo,Larry
So at least we can agree on that Larry. You and I are the top guys.
[quote="$1"]
So at least we can agree on that Larry. You and I are the top guys.
[/quote]
Not Really Gene you are older than me so you are the top guy. Age before handsomeness, LOL. Mahalo,Larry