Business idea - comments and suggestions welcome

Kendall, thats a very ethnocentric viewpoint. In most of the world we don’t have access to surfshops with lines of pavels and bings, hell we don’t even have merricks! Just crappy chinese boards with the odd glass board from the UK or France. Many of my friends order their boards from UK importers or Icons of Surf - over the internet, Wegners, bings, tylers,KG, Mc Coy and McTavish. I personally could name at least 20 people who have ordered boards over the internet in the past year.

Icons in particular have a pretty efficient internet service worldwide and they just do boards.

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I dunno… I hear people talking about how much stuff they’re going to sell over the internet. I’ve been asked many times to write business plans that show internet sales. I can’t do it.

Some things lend themselves well to online sales - like books, DVDs, tee shirts, toys, etc. Surfboards? I don’t think so. People want to touch them before they commit. Even when you order a custom, you want to see an example first. Boards sell in surfshops because people fondle them and just have to take the new object of their desires home with them. You don’t get that on the web. And there are a thousand other guys competing with you.

Good luck though.

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Kendall, thats a very ethnocentric viewpoint. In most of the world we don't have access to surfshops with lines of pavels and bings, hell we don't even have merricks!

You’re right… I’m sorry about that. I’ve been surrounded by boards almost my whole life, so I don’t know what it’s like it the outer reaches of surfland. Not only could I walk into a shop with rows and rows of new Bings… Bing would be there too. We’ve got over 850 surf shops in California, over 650 in Hawaii, and more than 680 in Florida. That doesn’t include the shops in other parts of the US, including three on the Great Lakes… wayyyy far away from surf. Anywhere there’s surf - and some places there’s not - there’s a surfshop.

Still… trying to build a successful business by catering to a handfull of surfers who live nowhere near surf shops, but still want surfboards… and custom ones… sounds like an uphill climb. Even the shops that blow boards out the doors make very little on board sales. The money is in softgoods and accessories.

Also… if you’re selling boards from multiple shapers, you won’t get to volume with any of them, and your price for finished boards will reflect that. Packing and shipping is a big hassle for most local-type shapers too. Don’t expect them to give you preferred treatment and pricing.

Making customs available to surfers in remote locations is a romantic idea, but it would prove to be more trouble than it’s worth. If you don’t have access to lots of boards, you can’t get the experience neccessary to intellegently order a custom. Sorry to say it but… you don’t need a custom board. You just need a good one that surfs well. Hell… you just need anything to get you into the water.

I don’t know how many customs you’ve ordered, but until you’ve worked with the same shaper for a while, you’re more likely to get what you want off the rack. A custom board can make a difference when the shaper gets to know exactly how you surf, where you surf, what has worked for you in the past, and what hasn’t. Making a one-off custom for a surfer thousands of miles away is just pissing in the dark. I’ve probably had over 500 boards over the last 43 years. Many… probably a third… were customs. I learned by experience that custom doesn’t always mean better. Picking from existing models isn’t a bad thing. As long as the dimensions are right for your weight and the conditions, you’ve got a good chance of getting a good board. Why compicate the proccess more than you have to?

I’m sorry if I’m coming off like a stick in the mud, but better that than lead you on to a difficult path that you’ll regret later. It’s just my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth. IBM ignored personal computers because they thought there wouldn’t be a market for them.

Kendall, you seem to have suffered in your pursuit for happyness with surfboards and shapers. times change too. one thing you said about stock boards compared to customs is true… your first purchase from a shaper may well be better of if its from the shalf… but your next few purchases from the same shaper will benifit from that. if you have a modern day surfboard designer he can open the computer file from that very board and modify it to suit your then known requirements and adjustments. those old handshaper styles cannot(99% anyway) garantee you the level of shape reproduction that a current state of the art shaping machine. we all know that foam and hand glassing layups all affect the performance but generally the ideal small time local shaper (30-50 a week) will have a tried and trusted staff team who will be relativly consistant with that stuff.

i export to lots of relativly unique shops and surfing venues. all happy customers swho order time and time again. even places like munich with river surfers and thier unique needs in boards can be dealt with after the first boards are made and ridden…

anyway dont discount the abiltys of many… from the experiances with old tried and tired mainstream surfing area shapers who survive because theres lots of people to buy thier stuff, and they surfed good for a while before…

No… really… I haven’t suffered. I’ve been super spoiled when it comes to surfboards. I started out surfing boards my dad made for me… made some on my own… got sponsored by Weber… got sponsored by Bing… and have been able to get boards for free or really cheap since. I’ve paid full pop a few times. Mostly because I wanted to support a shaper or shop.

I’m not trying to be the voice of negativity… just a reality check before investing a lot of time and money into a new venture. I just know from experience that selling anything on line is a challenge. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done… but it’s not as easy as “here’s my site, come buy my stuff”.

I can see some potential for Haavard if he either sold his own boards, or boards by a shaper he has close ties to. The critical part is to have the board maker fully behind the site. That means preferred service and pricing. Otherwise you’re not offering anything that can’t be had somewhere else. Offering customs from multiple sources just complicates things, especially in the begining when you have enough other challenges. There are plenty of “stock” boards that will work for most surfers… especially ones that have limited access to boards in the first place. If you grow up surfing somewhere with limited access to equipment, you should be stoked to get boards that other rippers from name spots are shredding on. In order to appreciate a custom shape, you need knowledge of what else it out there… experience on lots of boards… otherwise, why are you getting the custom? Just try a different “model”.

So Dave… if some guy from Norway ordered a custom board from you, through an agent (like Haavard’s website), how would you know what to make? Wouldn’t you just say “what kind of waves do you surf, what kind of ability do you have, what are you surfing now, what do you want different, and how much do you weigh?” Couldn’t you fill his needs with a standard model, sized for them? Would you support Haavard’s business model by offering up your services? Wouldn’t you give him better service if he directed most of his orders to you, instead of multiple shapers? Would you give him better pricing on twenty boards than you would on one? Can customers order boards directly from your website? What could they get from Haavard that they couldn’t get from you?

So I didn’t start out thinking I was going to hijack this thread… I just couldn’t sit back and only hear only one side of the story. I’m really not negative. I may be a little (OK a lot) jaded. I’ve had experience selling stuff online, and I’ve been surfing and dealing with surfboards for a very long time. I believe in “measure twice, cut once”. You should look at every angle of the business before jumping in with both feet. Whenever you can, keep things simple. There are enough complications you can’t control.

Really I’m a happy guy. I love surfing and surfboards… all kinds of surfboards. I just picked two new ones up yesterday. Both custom ordered. One was another copy of one of Dick Brewer’s personal boards (he made it for himself… I tried it and fell in love with it… I now have the original plus three copies that live in different parts of the world), the other was a copy of a quad that Michel Junod made for himself, but a little thicker to support my fatter frame. Both of these boards are available as stock models in multiple sizes. If I wasn’t such a board snob, I could have just as easily bought these off a rack.

So Haavard… don’t take my comments to mean “don’t do it”. I may be a great thing. Just think it through first. Also consider offering softgoods and accessories too. That’s where the money is.

If you actually ever want my advice (as opposed to me just forcing it on you), I’m more than happy to give it.

end of transmission.

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So Dave… if some guy from Norway ordered a custom board from you, through an agent (like Haavard’s website), how would you know what to make? Wouldn’t you just say “what kind of waves do you surf, what kind of ability do you have, what are you surfing now, what do you want different, and how much do you weigh?” Couldn’t you fill his needs with a standard model, sized for them?

Personally I think Havard has a unique situation that could work, especially given his own criteria of it being a small, less-than-part time business. I haven’t been to Norway for…since 1979, so I don’t know what it’s like now, but I can’t imagine the surf scene is highly developed compared to California or Florida or Hawaii level saturation. Overseas boards probably come from local overseas travel, if not the ubiquitous shipping container. I don’t know what customs duties are on that kind of purchase. But the time and place might be ripe for this, for now.

“Standard models” from overseas shapers would make good starting points…Scandinavian surfers begin there, then have a mutual base-point for future true custom work from a shaper if desired. Maybe Havard could carry some of the labels t-shirts too to pad the profit and loss situation.

I don’t think this wouldn’t work at all in the “developed” surf world, though.

Kendall, i did think your origional post was a little negative, but i see where your coming from. i will, answer some of your questions betweeen the lines below…

so Dave… if some guy from Norway ordered a custom board from you, through an agent (like Haavard’s website), how would you know what to make? AFTER NEARLY 20 years OF MAKING CUSTOMS YOU START TO KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT SURF IN DIFFERENT AREAS. EG CURRENTLY MAKE 20-30 CUSTOMS A YEAR FOR NORWEGIAN SURFERS IVE MET IN BALI, WATCH SEVERAL OF THIER HOME SURF VIDEOS ETC… Wouldn’t you just say “what kind of waves do you surf, what kind of ability do you have, what are you surfing now, what do you want different, and how much do you weigh?” BASIC IMPORTANT QUESTIONS… Couldn’t you fill his needs with a standard model, sized for them? INITIALLY YES, THAT WHAT I ALLUDED TO IN MY PREVIOUS POST TO YOU, STARTING WITH A STOCK BOARD, BUT BUILT FOR SUITABLE CONDITIONS… Would you support Haavard’s business model by offering up your services? YES Wouldn’t you give him better service if he directed most of his orders to you, NO… GOOD SERVICE COMES TO EVERY INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMER… instead of multiple shapers? Would you give him better pricing on twenty boards than you would on one? NO PRICES THESE DAYS ARE VERY LOW ANYWAY DUE TO OUR COMPETITIVE MARKETS, FREIGHT PRICES AFFECT VOLUME THO AND HELP REDUCE COSTS/INCREASE MARGINS… Can customers order boards directly from your website? YES THEY DO CURRENTLTY. IT COST THEM A LOT IN SHIPPING INDIVIDUAL BOARDS. I WOULD SEND THE ORDERS THRU HARVARD AS THEY THEN BECOME VIABLE FOR ALL THE CUSTOMERS, I WOULD GO EVEN AS FAR AS TURNING MY DATABASE OF NORWEGIAN CUSTOMERS OVER TO HIM What could they get from Haavard that they couldn’t get from you?TRANSLATION OF ORDERS, AND AN EDUCATED GUIDE THRU MY BOARDS AND MODELS AS HE WOULD HAVE FULL TRAINING AND SEE ALL THE BOARDS/MODELS/FEATURES AS THEY COME THRU. A FAIR PRICE WITHOUT THE HASSLES OF INDIVIDUALLY TRANSFERING MONEY AND RECIVEING SHIPMENTS… sorry about caps i couldnt find out how to change colors like bill does… im on mac. maybe its a firefox thing…

That’s cool… Haavard would do well to work with you.

Still… the beauty of the web is it reaches the entire world. We’re talking about Haavard’s site like it’s mostly for Norway. If that’s true, wouldn’t a brick and mortar surfshop with an online presence make more sense? If there are that many surfers in Norway, and no shops to support them… that smells like a business to me. It can be really low key… maybe even in Haarvard’s garage. Shops are a good place to hang out, get information, share the stoke, lust over cool stuff, touch things…

If my focus was going to be strictly web, I’d be sweeping the globe, not just a location. Maybe I’m reading more into it than I should, but that’s what I thought started Haavard down this path… tempered by his experiences in Norway. That’s the disconnect for me. Almost everywhere I’ve been where there are surfers and surf, there are surfshops - if there’s a hole in Norway, fill it. If the goal is to be more global, then the hard sell is… most surfers have access to shops unless they live in remote locals and only come out now and then. Most “name” shapers offer the ability to order directly through them. I talked to hundreds of shapers while compiling the tree. They were universally easy to get in touch with. Painting with a wide brush makes it hard to focus on details. Details are important if the model is selling custom boards.

I’m just thinking in circles, but it’s what I do. In fact, mega companies have paid me big bucks to do the same thing. I’m really not being negative, just trying to think of all the angles. The obvious Norwegian solution to me is - surfshop. I can’t yet see the website working… unless it was there to support the shop.

If you sell 20 to 30 boards a year to Noregians you randomly meet, there must be many more out there. Haarvard should build them a temple.

Hi Kendall,

I really appreciate your input. I need a fair bit of criticism to think this through.

As a snowboarder I see your point about off-the-racks being suitable for most riders. With thousands of brands, each with their models, each model in different length and width, etc. there should be something to suit everyone. However in my part of the world with only a few surfshops with limited stock, if you are looking for a minigun you might be lucky to find one in these shops. Most likely you won’t (nor do you need one much) and if you find one, you can bet it’s not the size you wanted. At least it used to be like that, it’s been a while since I’ve been to a shop (yes, I’ll visit every shop a few times to see what they have in shop before I start up business). Forget about finding something ‘out of the ordinary’ like a noserider, a single fin, or a twin or a hull. Forget about getting something made by Merrick, Rusty, Lost, etc. unless you consider Surftechs. As Nels pointed out, a lot of the surfboards here are brought in by traveling surfers from Bali, South Africa, France, the Canaries, etc. A lot of those boards are totally wrong for the conditions we have here most of the time (Some of us tend to laugh a bit at the guys that ‘learned to surf in Bali’ but can barely catch a wave here, surfing pintail shortboards in kneeslop, you get the idea). Last time I was at the major shop, they had two longboards, one made in China sticker, Hawaiian brand, the other one was twisted like crazy but still had a $800 + taxes price tag. I only make boards for myself and friends, but I would have been ashamed to charge materials cost for a board like that.

I won’t use a lot of different shapers, it will be a selected few (a handful tops). While there are certainly much higher margins by importing a large number of popouts or Chinese/South African boards (ridiculous margins as a matter of fact), even using US shop prices + shipping I can be relatively competitive price wise. Secondly, as I’ve pointed out a few times I want this to be a side show. I’m not expecting to make a lot of money. The risk is next to nothing, there really is not stock I can loose on, I’ll make sure boards are shipping insured and insured against theft from my property. The cost for setting this up is next to nothing, I can set up a server in my basement($0) or use small business on yahoo($5 a month or so). I’d say I’d be successful if I sell two boards a month on average, if it gets close to ten it’s getting out of hand.

It will be hard for a shaper to pinpoint customs from thousands of miles away, however I can be of some assistance. I might know my customers quite well or by name only, seen them surf or know someone who has. I know the conditions the boards will be used in well, if someone want a board for spot X or Y (that’s real spots bdw.) I know what those spots are like. I can give the shapers some ideas what kind of boards work well here and what doesn’t. And while a custom isn’t necessarily better than an off-the-rack, it’s not necessarily worse either. Cost wise the customs are going to cost the same as an off-the-rack in the shops, so you might just as well get ‘model’ shaped as a custom order.

The gap in the market in Norway is the limited models available. You could fill this gap by more on the racks or by customs, which would you choose?

regards,

Håvard

You’re making good sense. I was just trying to look at the picture from all angles.

If you’re going to take delivery and then distribute the boards locally… are you opening a shop? The definition of “shop” can be applied very loosely. If people are going to come by to pick up their boards, are you going to take orders from there too? You could simply turn your garage into a surfshop. Let people pick up their boards, hang out for awhile, talk surf… have some catalogs, magazines, stickers, wax, leashes… stuff like that. Maybe even have a board or two or three for sale at all times. If the waves are mostly kneeslop, get a few longboards as eye candy from one of your “custom shapers”. They’ll be great for inspiring orders, they will probably sell themselves, if they don’t… you get to keep them, and they’re tax deductable (at least they would be here in the US). If nothing else, you could have a kickass garage.

Use the web for servicing orders and snagging new customers. The surf community must be pretty small around you… word of mouth and personal interaction is where it’s at. If they have to come to you to pick up orders anyway, give them a place to hang out. Make them schedule an appointment to visit. Think of it as the ultimate “den”. You don’t need to make excuses to hang out with your surf buddies there because you’re having a “board meeting”.

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The gap in the market in Norway is the limited models available. You could fill this gap by more on the racks or by customs, which would you choose?

“Gap on the racks” almost requires stock boards…I’d try a mix…if you order stock boards for your area they really are custom dsigns for Norwegian waves in a sense. Then local surfers can order true individual customs.

First this thread, then I have a margarita and am cruising cable tv and come across this movie…I guess things have changed in recent years…

 <a href="http://www.nfi.no/english/" class="bb-url"><img src="http://www.nfi.no/english/norwegianfilms/images/overskrift.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /></a>   <div style="text-align:right"><a href="http://www.nfi.no/english/norwegianfilms/documentaries" class="bb-url">Documentaries</a> [right]<a href="http://www.nfi.no/english/norwegianfilms/features" class="bb-url">Features</a> [right]<a href="http://www.nfi.no/english/norwegianfilms/shorts" class="bb-url">Short Films</a> [right]<a href="http://www.nfi.no/english/norwegianfilms/search_intro.html" class="bb-url">Search the

Film Database Monsterthursday Original title Monstertorsdag Type Features Genre Drama Director Arild Østin Ommundsen Short summary

Monsterthursday is a romantic drama with hints of comedy from the surfer scene in Stavanger. Even and Tord are old friends. Tord marries Karen, whom Even has always loved, but who is now expecting a child with Tord. Tord is everything Even is not. He is handsome, surfs like a god, has gotten his work and career together. Shortly after the wedding, Tord goes to Australia on a so-called official journey, with his surfboard tucked under his arm.[/right]

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The problem is you cannot keep everything everyone want in stock, not even the ‘real’ surfshops around here can. So you either go to the shop, if you are lucky you find exactly what you want. If not, you can choose between getting something close to what you want, wait until next stock board shipment and hope there is something you want there, or get a custom.

It’s a good idea to have a few boards in stock, some show items, etc. I’d like to have a few ‘standard models’ that I know work well our waves and adjust from there according to abilities, weight, etc. especially for those who are not very particular with what they want.

The oddball Monsterthursday happened because the filmmaker is a local surfer. Despite the name, it was filmed during a really crappy winter. Funny how teaphoo(sp?) is suddenly in our backyard… I must admit I have only seen the trailer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWobeE–IbQ I liked the ‘nonpracticing surfer dudes’ living in a trailer on the beach. It’s all about the lifestyle, dude…

regards,

Håvard