I have been working on a CAD system for designing surfboards because I think the programs out there are not very good. One of the things I did, that others don’t do as far as I know, is make the bulkheads perpendicular to the rail and at the same time perpendicular to the rocker. I think this is vital and I haven’t seen anyone else do it yet for some reason. Also I have a CNC machine shop making molds and have actually made a few boards on a machine. But because my machines are not suited for big stuff, I shape most of my boards by hand.
Anyway, I was wondering a few things. Anyone have any thing to say about how to improve surfboard CAD programs? Also anybody just getting started machining boards and want some help? Or even if you arleady are machining boards and would like some input, maybe get some new ideas. I’m just stoked on the whole process and possibilities of CAD design and would like to get more involved somehow.
I can e-mail out a sample 3D CAD designed board if anyone wants one, its cool.
Hi I do my Board designs and templates using CAD but its all 2D and boaring. It would be cool to transform my drawings to 3D and look how you did yours. If ou can email one to me would be great. I can be contacted at grant.swift@hcstarck.com
It’s much more user friendly than PC CADD programs and if someone came up with a surfboard design plug-in for it, it would be great. They have all kinds of reference libraries that go with it - for instance, for landscape design, there is 70 some odd different libraries you can import that have different kinds of plants, trees, rocks, and other things you would use in landscaping…and yep, you can just import the plant you want on to your layout.
For surfboard design, there could be an additional library of classic surfboard shapes…and fins. Which you could use for templates or use parts of for a custom board…This all besides being able to draw your own from scratch.
The bonus with PowerCADD is you get to undo layers and try out things and then, if you don’t like say the tail section, undo it, and put on another…no problem…like doodling.
You can’t do that with PC CADD…the learning curve is also very short with PowerCADD.
I don’t know if you’ve come across this already, but you should definitely check out wetsand’s new section on DSD (digital surfboard design), it’s great.
Yea, there is some good information in there. I would love to get my hands on the DSD software just to see how there program works. Anyone have that software and wouldn’t mind me sitting in and watching them use it for a little while?
Just so I understand clearly - the bulkheads ( or stations, as we might call 'em in the boat design biz) are perpendicular to the rocker and to the centerline, that is like sideways slices through the board that are angled with respect to a baseline front to back parallel with the board overall with the possible exception of one point along the run of the board?
Isn’t that kinda interesting to do in terms of coordinate systems and feeding those coordinates to an X,Y,Z coordinate CAM system? And what does this do that would be an improvement over more standard systems that’d justify itself in terms of time, effort and etc?
Some things that would be nice, from a manufacturing standpoint, might include a read-in from a scanning system, such that a board that works well could be scanned in and perhaps adapted/adjusted. Linux/Unix based, so that it’d port to just about anything with a little effort. Output to a standardised CAM format and drawing format, rather than attempting to reinvent that set of wheels ( which, from a little research a while ago, seems to have been the downfall of several would-be surfboard CAD-CAM setups that never made it) .
“Just so I understand clearly - the bulkheads ( or stations, as we might call 'em in the boat design biz) are perpendicular to the rocker and to the centerline, that is like sideways slices through the board that are angled with respect to a baseline front to back parallel with the board overall with the possible exception of one point along the run of the board?”
I attached a picture that shows my bulkheads or stations, a dirty picture but I think it shows the gist.
" “Isn’t that kinda interesting to do in terms of coordinate systems and feeding those coordinates to an X,Y,Z coordinate CAM system? And what does this do that would be an improvement over more standard systems that’d justify itself in terms of time, effort and etc?”
As far as feeding it to a CAM system, that is no big deal. At least the CAM software I use imports solid models then spits out code, it doesn’t even know there were ever any bulkheads, it just sees surfaces. > >The way it is better is: When you shape a board by hand, you don’t see it in bulkheads. For the rails you look down the rail and see the shape of the rail at an angle. So for instance on the shape in the picure the rail is round, if you look down the rail after this board is machined the rail is round from nose to tail, of course it goes to a sharp edge out the tail but it is round above that. If it were drawn with vertical bulkheads, near the nose and the tail, where there is more curve in the outline it would be noticeable that the round is distorted. Depending on how close to finished you machine the board, this may not matter to you because by hand shapping you can fix that. but I am after repeatability and the less hand shapping the better when it comes to this stuff. Though there is and always will be a place for hand shapping also.
" “Some things that would be nice, from a manufacturing standpoint, might include a read-in from a scanning system, such that a board that works well could be scanned in and perhaps adapted/adjusted. Linux/Unix based, so that it’d port to just about anything with a little effort. Output to a standardised CAM format and drawing format, rather than attempting to reinvent that set of wheels ( which, from a little research a while ago, seems to have been the downfall of several would-be surfboard CAD-CAM setups that never made it).” > >I dont quite understand what you are saying here. If you are saying that you would like to be able to scan in the board strait to a drawing program, that can be done. basically the guy scanning the board would just trace out the outline, then trace the rocker and thickness, then trace the bulkheads. you could take that geometry and put it into the cad system no problem. you can actually lay the scanned in board info over the top of a CAD designed board and make them match, or at least come really close.
“dunno, that’s my take on it, anyhow…”
“doc…” > >Thanks for the input. People can contact me for surfboard 3D CAD sample that anyone can open
Yes. I am interested in CAD and in seeing your file. Please email me beardw@gat.com I have been working with CAD since 1982 as a mechanical designer, no surfboard shaping though. I would like to learn more and maybe even buy an NC shaper. Thank you. -David
Instead of buying one, why not make your own board mill? I don’t have enough experience (or knowledge for that matter) to design it on my own, but I’m sure a group of swaylockers working together could come up with something sweet and not too expensive.
I have limited experience with 3-axis machining using masterCAM, but my uncle knows a bunch about it and would be stoked to help out. Funny that this topic came up just now. This weekend is one of the two weekends out of the year that I see him. I’ll run the idea by him and see if he thinks it’s feasible.
What CAD systems are shapers currently using? The only one I’ve come across that deserves attention is DAT Designer (available from http://members.ozemail.com.au/~cetsurf/pages/home.html). Anyone found one that they really like?
i think this one is a good start for you guys to try, they have a demo you can download, i think its called shape3D. there is 3 machines in australia now. http://www.shape3d.com/
That is a brilliant idea to pool some people together and make on mill. I am a machinist and can make most of the parts and between me and Losos uncle we should be fine. Is there someone who can weld up a frame? Then we need someone that knows how to make the servos and electical work. I think I could design the machine but a mechanical engineer would probably help the situation. From what I have found we could probably do it for under $20K but possible closer to $10K for a sweet one, with ball screws all around.
I envision something like the DAT machine, like the one in the wetsand article.
It’s less than $6000, and very precise. A lot of shapers have them but won’t admit it. I don’t know what I would do without mine. It works with most CAD software, but it is directly supported by Shape3d. It will shape a board every 20 minutes. I use mine for all kinds of other stuff too.
It’s less than $6000, and very precise. A lot of shapers have them but won’t admit it. I don’t know what I would do without mine. It works with most CAD software, but it is directly supported by Shape3d. It will shape a board every 20 minutes. I use mine for all kinds of other stuff too.
Highly recommended.
Ive seen that before BUT what are the capabilities of the shop bot? Can it scan an existing shape? What is the maximum board length that can be milled? How is the blank held down? and Does it turn the rails? What about bottom features like concave and vee?
Those machines are decent for the price, though accuracy is not good .015". and speed is slow.
If we were to build a machine we could make an asome one, super fast and accurate, it would be more expensive but not by a whole lot, especially if we got input from people here.
Ive seen that before BUT what are the capabilities of the shop bot? Can it scan an existing shape? What is the maximum board length that can be milled? How is the blank held down? and Does it turn the rails? What about bottom features like concave and vee?
can it scan an existing shap? yes but with added software and hardware.
what is the maximum board length? sounds like you can order them up to just about any size.
how is the blank held down? that is up to you to make a fixture.
does it turn the rails? that is all in the programming, not the machine, so yes as long as you can program it to.
what about bottom features like concave and vee? again that is all in the programing. the machine will do it if you know how to tell it to.
They have a probe that will scan an existing board which costs $300. The standard model is 4’x8’, but they will make any width and length you want. It can do rails, and any bottom feature you desire. It’s just like most of the other CNC machines. You do one side and then flip it over and do the other side. There is several different ways to hold down the board while machining. They have a forum where ShopBot owners discuss the different methods. My favorite is the vacuum pod.
The ShopBot isn’t specifically designed for machining surfboards, but it is more or less the same as the ones that are. With all shaping machines you will have to do some light sanding to sand down the ridges made by the rounded end bit. Because of this, accuracy is more than good enough. I’m sure other machines are slightly faster, but a board every 20 minutes is good enough for me. But if you are into doing production, the ShopBot allows you to add a second Z-axis, so you could machine two identical boards at a time.
There’s really nothing it can’t do. If you program it, it will cut it.
