Can someone please define “canard quad”.
Often used like this…“My 5’10” canard quad is much quicker than my traditional fish".
Looked in Swaylopedia ,did some archive searching.
“Canard” is never used alone always has “Quad” attached to it. Who ,what, where is “Canard”.
I understand a quad fin set up vs. a twinzer.
Do Canard Quads get used on all types of boards or just Fish.
Thanks
Ray
Hey Stingray,
If you know what the Rusty C-5 looks like, then just remove the center fin. Also, the “Twinzer” (circa 1987) is a canard quad. I made a single fin with a single canard ahead of the main fin about 20 years ago, it never spun out but the board oscillated rail-to-rail a bit when the faces got steep/hollow.
The canard is a smaller fin/finlet that is placed slightly ahead and outboard of the main driving fin. The official engineering term is “vane” much like airliners have on their leading edges (slats) of the wings and nacelles to maintain connected flow and enhanced lift or reduce drag.
The drawback I found with canards is that they hold in too well. For example, when doing a vert lip hit it is desirable to get the fins and tail to “release” momentarily and a majority of canards have a hard time doing this. Of course, some genius out there has no doubt figured a way to get the fin set to release and re-attach as so many performance surfers want mostly through fin position, reduction of fin area, and hull revision.
One positive and very noticible effect was the reduction in drag. When set up even “half-correctly” the boards go FAST. Kind of like someone released the parking brake…
Definitely purpose-built, IMO…
Actually vane is a much better term than canard for a twinser. There is a difference between a vane and a canard. A canard doesn’t create a slot effect as a vane does. A canard keeps the wing from stalling by not allowing the main foil to reach a stall angle. A vane’s slot effect keeps the foil from stalling by keeping the angle of incidence stable to the leading edge of the wing. A vane creates more power through the slot as well. In sailing a main and a jib are examples of slot effect and they create more power than the same square footage would if it were just a single sail. So technically a twinser isn’t a canard. It’s a vane.
The drawback I found with canards is that they hold in too well. For example, when doing a vert lip hit it is desirable to get the fins and tail to “release” momentarily and a majority of canards have a hard time doing this.
From the pics and descriptions I’ve seen of twinsers the setup looks like standard twin profiles with the vanes in front. Would using a narrower flexy fin with more rake, in back, give you that bit of release?
Ray, here are some fancy shmancy nautical technical terms that most likely will not help ;=). I personaly like the Picklefork set up best. http://www.lesliefield.com/odds_n_ends/unlimited_glossary_of_technical_terms.htm
Quads, turbo quads, c-5’s, c-5 minus one or twinzers. what ever man. it’s mostly marketing hype…but not really, there is something to it. I am working on it…
Here’s pic of one of my twinzer set ups.
And some others I am working on…
Hey Greg,
Would a “Vane” be placed differenty than a “Canard”?
Would a “Vane” be shaped differently than a “Canard”?
I’ve been surfing my new Going quad with lots of different fin set-ups lately. The damn thing goes better with six fins than it does any other way. Little fins ahead of the main rail fins makes the thing drive better and hold a great high line. It also drives through the soup and holds it line like a demon.
Sorry no pictures 'till I get my new software from Olympus. What came witht he camera isn’t compatable with Window XP so Olympus is sending me a upgrade for free. Pretty sweey huh?
No Worries, Rich
From Shipman’s link:
Canard: “a small, forward-mounted wing, usually between the sponsons and often adjustable for trim.”
Thanks for the replies everyone but I’m still a little confused.
Here’s what I know so far…
A “canard” is a small fin or finlet placed in front of the main fin.
A “canard” is closer to the rail than the main fin
“Canard” has something to do with sailing and how the sails work.
Canard quad is fast but does not release well in lip bashing
Ray needs to research Rusty C-5 ,Twinzer ,Vane ,Stall angle ,ect.
Hey Shipman ! Nice fins !
…I like having the smaller fins BEHIND the bigger fins .
I remember using small canard fins directly in front of large single fin sailboards(called 'em trip fins). They served two purposes. They would keep the large fin from cavitating and they would shed kelp and eel grass before it could hang up on the big fin and slow you w a y d o w n …
Can someone please define “canard quad”.
my first thought was “canard” sounds french
looked it up in my french-english dictionary …yep , THERE it is …
canard / kanar/ nm duck; (journal) rag
A “canard” wing is a wing set in front of the main wing on an airplane. It is set at an angle so if the plane is pushed into a stall attitude then the canard forces the front of the plane back down eliminating the stall.
Canard airplanes are famous for their safety, but have some handling issues such as “porpoising” and are not particularly efficent. Canards are a failsafe method of eliminating stall in aircraft. Canards have lost popularity in airplane design because of these issues.
A “canard” does not create a slot effect.
The term “canard” is not being used correctly here.
There isn’t, nor has there ever been, a canard used on a surf or sailboard. The concept isn’t one that would really work on a board. Do you want to set a fin that stops you from extreme turning so you won’t spin out? This is the essense of what a canard does.
A Twinser creates a slot effect thereby keeping the angle of incidence (others call this “angle of attack” which also isn’t really right) constant on the main fin. This virtually eliminates ventilation (spin out or stall) of the main fin. It is VERY effective at this and also creates more fin power by increasing flow speed through the slot.
A standard four fin is more like a three fin in which the trailing fins are just stablizers … sort of.
I thought a canard was a french duck.
…ambrose…
my just wife said it has two n’s
so a two duck twin fin,in france
as the illustrious dr. Loehr has explained
perhaps thes fin set up would better be called -jib-
as they seem to replicae te sail of the same position
and also influence the same slot effect.
French duck flambe’ …
With Bernaise
In Bushese … Freedom duck …
oops, was that political? Sorry …
ok now im lost too.
what should be the term used for what has been called the canard quad by pavel, mandala and others? it looks like a regular quad, with a hatchet style trailer.
thanks for the insight
ok now im lost too.
what should be the term used for what has been called the canard quad by pavel, mandala and others? it looks like a regular quad, with a hatchet style trailer.
thanks for the insight
“Quad fish” The fins are really too big to be considered a canards.
thats what i was thinking…
http://www.mandalacustomshapes.com/MPcanard.html
for reference purposes then, what is the feedback on this sites description?
A Twinser creates a slot effect thereby keeping the angle of incidence (others call this “angle of attack” which also isn’t really right) constant on the main fin. This virtually eliminates ventilation (spin out or stall) of the main fin. It is VERY effective at this and also creates more fin power by increasing flow speed through the slot.
correct me if im wrong here but i have an observation on the fore-aft offset of ‘canard’ or ‘vane’ setup. when one considers common angles of attack and the slot affect simultaneously, one could achieve a variation of fin performance thru fore-aft positioning relative to the large fin of a twinzer. meaning the slot affect would be there whether the overlap of the c fin is moderate or large but you’d lose the affect if it was too distant from the main fin. the degree of overlap/offset would appear to have a dramatic affect on the feel of the setup…perhaps a pivoty v. drivey compromise…i tried a tiny c fin on a thruster setup but didnt test it enough to make a solid determination…
regarding its speed/drag qualities…im intrigued by its potential to minimize ventilation/seperation during sharp turns on modern thrusters setups…i.e. more speed out of maneuvers to facilitate combos during rail/power surfing…
very intriguing…
regarding its speed/drag qualities....im intrigued by its potential to minimize ventilation/seperation during sharp turns on modern thrusters setups...i.e. more speed out of maneuvers to facilitate combos during rail/power surfing...very intriguing…
You could try them out and call them…
“Superchargers”
Ba dum bum…(with all due respect, Herb).
However, whereas the Twinzer effect on a twin is very prominent, the effect on a thruster is not always so noticeable.
Should also add that the small Twinzer fin, in addition to cleaning up flow around the inside rail fin, acts to ventilate the flow around the outside rail fin.
Back to the original issue, the “quad” has two fins equal in size, foiling, positioning wrt rail. The canard quad had the rear fin double foiled, further inboard, and more upright. The slot effect is hardly noticeable relative to a Twinzer (where it is strong). And you even get a little thruster-like force on the bottom.
But the dead spot coming off the top freaks me out.