How do you set the cant (or camber) to futures. When installing the box into the blank do you lam it in place the the fin installed and a 5 or 6 degree cant. Most the the threads I’ve read don’t mention this step. Does the design on the futures fin system provide the cant we want or do we have to play with the resin and box intalling to get the right set-up? thnx, Chris
piss on them a sellout is a sellout IS A SELLOUT
Well, you have found another reason not to use futures.
Hey Chris, Future fins have the cant set into the fin tab. You mount the fin boxes flush with the bottom of the board and the fin-base structure takes care of the cant. If you want more or less you can easily fashion it into a fiberglass fin’s base. Mahalo, Rich
What is wrong with Futures?
Howzit Chris, You have come across one problem with Futures. What I do is insert a set of fins and set the angle with a sliding bevel square. If you don’t go with the pre set 5 degrees The box it self will not set flush in the board. This will make for a high side and a low side of the box which you will have to deal with.I usually try to set the high side level with the bottom and build up the low side after the board is laminated. This is one problem that is not a problem with FCS as I have set the cant at as much as 9 degrees on some boards. Aloha, Kokua
that’s what is making my fin choice difficult. FCS seem easier to install and you can get the cant spot on. Futures are more durable (most seem to say) but it seems like the accuracy of the cant might be questionable. I have considered installing the FCS plugs into the foam and setting the cant (kick with uv resin) then taping the plugs and then lam over them with 2- 4oz patches and the 4oz bottom layer (like the futures install method) Sand open the plugs after the hot coat. Have you ever tried this? Chris
If you want to put a 6oz cap on top of the fcs plugs just install and sand the board as usual. Then tape over the plug, only tape the holes. Leave some room for the cloth to cover the plug. Take some 6oz patches and glass over the plugs. Cut tape out when almost hard. Sand and re-HC over plugs then fine sand. Board done. This works great with suncure resin, only takes about 20min extra, if that. BTW futures suck because if you hit them the foam gives way under the box and it breaks away from the glass. Tears the bottom of the board up bad and is pretty hard to fix without it looking like crap. The futures, just like O’fishals are not anchored to the deck and that is a major problem with the design. I fix ten to one futures/ofishals to FCS. No one has yet come up with anything better than FCS for ease of instalation, easy to fix and strong, anchored to the deck plugs, with many fin templates to choose from.
Strange, I find the exact opposite to be true 10 to 1 FCS to Futures repairs. The number one problem is the plugs get pushed through from the deck side.
The deck glass pushing down and cracking is a glassing problem, not a problem with the FCS system.
If it’s a glassing problem then why don’t I have this problem with Futures? The FCS is glassed by the book. Curious, Please explain why would this be a glassing problem?
I’ve used thousands of O’Fish’L’s and have never had problems with failure. True, it happens to every system but, like Finny, I’ve also seen many more FCS break then Future’s or O’Fish’L. And the performance of a tabbed system is lacking in comparison to a full base system as well. And those aren’t my words, that comes straight from a number of top shapers I regularly communicate with.
I wouldn’t say Futures “suck”. I like them. Sounds Like MKIA works for FCS. Either that or he gets all his information from the sage pages of Surfing Magazine.
Future offers its own jig and a custom router bit made for the system.They also have a good short instructional video that comes with the installation kit.Too many people are trying to put them in with homemade rigs using trim routers,dremels or maybe axes and chisels.Thats the main problem.I am not endorsing one fin sytem or another but no matter which one is used it needs to done right.As for canting its not that hard to adjust them,just set the router to cut a little deeper and work the resin around the box with your finger while glassing.
The future fin box was not designed to be adjusted. They reccomend that the box be “seated” to the foam, thereby limiting the available cant to what’s built into the fins base.Better hope your concaves are spot-on! If you tweak the box around, you are compromising the integrity of the systems strength by floating resin under the box. The problem/s with this system are straight sided box(no bueno), the box twists around inside the board which causes cracks to form(hence the development of the suspension system), plus box is dead flat, creating many difficulties while installing it into a curved surface. FCS, doesn’t have this problem as it doesn’t get glassed over,rather it gets ground down to whatever the shape of the board is. However, i’d agree, I see 10 FCS repairs to 1 Future or anything else for that matter. Anytime you cut a hole into a surfboard, you have compromised it’s integrity, unless you glass back over it. This was a problem in the 70’s when the fins unlimited box first showed up in hawaii. Boards were snapping at the front of the box. Soon as they started capping the boxes, the problem went away overnite!
I have done literally thousands of Futures and never once had a problem with the box cracking due to twisting. The straight box sides actually tie in the strength of the box when the fins are fitted. True, your bottoms need to be on if you want the boxes flat but, there is just enough room to fudge if needed. If you can’t get the bottoms symmetrical then the FCS are easier to compensate for a lopsided bottom, but the problem is with the bottom not the box. Even if you can adjust finagle the FCS to “look” correct it’s still lopsided due the crooked bottom. I get dead on symmetry with the Futures, with the FCS it will deviate. Easy way to check is to install left and right fins into the boxes and place the board on a dead flat surface and see if the fins touch evenly on the flat surface. An uneven bottom and/or fin install will deviated from left to right sides. There is enough cant built in the Future boxes and it has never been an issue. I have much more than 10-1 ratio for more FCS repairs than Futures. I have never had a Future box be pushed thorugh from the deck, not one. I have had countless numbers of FCS fail due to the plugs being pushed through.
There are lots of variables involved. You can have a twisted blank, which happens regularly, which could have the fins set right, but the board may still teeter. Not fullproof. Nobody checks bootoms for trueness, or blanks for twist before install. What you want is to see a visually pleasing look to the cluster before resining. In other words,if you are relying on the built in fin base angle to get your cant…your limited. Some shapers these days are doing extremely deep single concaves. You need to get 8 degrees on your fins to give a good rail to rail feel on those bottoms. Can’t really get that with that system. In fact, many glassers I know(which is over 100) don’t even put fins in them on install. They just tape over the cavity and slam 'em in. When was the last time you saw a laminator set fin angles? In most cases, the laminator is putting them in with the same resin he’s laminating with.This is a strong install, but total guess work! One example would be pat rawson, who writes the degree he wants for the various bottoms he does, on the stringer between the fins. He knows what angles make his boards work right. If the laminator is installing them with no fins in them, he’s negating pats efforts. You may be getting the angles YOU want, but I bet it’s no more than 6 or so, on flatter bottoms. Also if you talk to the repair shops in so cal, you may find drastically different numbers than those stated. I’m one of those shops.
You wrote: “And the performance of a tabbed system is lacking in comparison to a full base system as well.” I’m truly interested in your explaination on this. First off, let me say the best boards I have ridden have had glassed-on fiberglass Aerocore fins. I also have extensive use of FCS fins, and have had recent use of Futures Fins, which also are quite good. But can you explain why you say a tabbed fin such as FCS would be any difference performace-wise? I don’t see them flexing any differently at their tabs, especially the carbon fins which seem just as stiff as glass-ons. What about the tabs would affect performance? Thanks,
Howzit Finny, Never ceases to amaze me about how many repairs you guys do to FCS. Being one of the only people with spare plugs for repairs in Hanalei I hardly ever have to do any FCS repairs and the ones I do do are because they weren’t installed properly. I have one shaper who has me set fins at radical angles ( 7 to 10 degrees), try that with some of the other systems.Aloha, Kokua
Howzit Tubedog, Checked out some Future vector fins with FCS tabs at Hanalei Surf Co. yesterday, They are made by Future and look really nice, $ 58.00 a set. I guess my FCS rep. was on the money. Aloha, Kokua