A buddy wants a copy of this other home built shape. Its a HPLB outline more or less but it has channel like bumps all the way down the rails starting at 10 inches from the nose, maybe 15 up from the tail.
Think Harbour nose channels but the length of the rail.
He claims it give control and lift and speed and does evertyhing a super duper surfboard should.
Whats the deal?
Is this rail design valid?
pictures of it here…
http://retroshaper.blogspot.com/2009/10/blog-post.html
I can see how the channels would give added lift and speed… by holding more water under the edge of the board and not letting it flow off the rail. The control part I don’t get.
A litle more description…
The shaper took foam strips and glued them on to the lam coat, the strips are 1/4 inch tall and 5/8ths wide. He glassed over them and onto the bottom and rails and fiared them in.
They are almost identical to Harbours’ nose channels. Bottoms are flat to single to double concave.
Frankly, I don’t see that they do anything good.
If its for lift, well you have to have a planing area that is getting lifted, right?
He has basically made one board-long shallow concave with relatively steep (abrupt) side walls. Any sidewall will potentially add to control, like a fin adds to control. And since it’s close to board length, my first guess would be that it would stiffen out the ride, unless he’s riding the tail - sitting on the final 15 inches, which is unlikely most of the time.
As for lift, my guess would be, sure, at least up front, prior to the rocker transition to a flatter section (if any), post transition not so much - as it would then become a function of where he is on the board. But if he is generating lift up front, his position on the board is going to have to be forward, at least forward that of that last 15 inches. And maybe stiffness works for him under such conditions.
Could work, or you could make it work… depends on how you like to surf. Full board-long concaves do have a market, though I wouldn’t know if that’s true on the style of board he seems to be applying it to.
I’ve never surfed such a thing, but my guess would be that it has two modes; straight and stiff with rider relatively forward, and a little less stiff, though not exactly loose until the rider is close to sitting on the tail. The impact would tend to be one of enhanced stability under certain conditions (given the kind of board he’s used). Enhanced stability (resulting in a reduced demand on technique) is a real plus for some.
However, I would suggest that conditions would dictate how often he would be able to sit on that tail and break free of the stiffness -i.e. if it’s relative slow and mushy, he’s stuck with stiff. And if it’s not slow and mushy, well, as conditions become more powerfull, a dedicated somewhat board-centric technique will progressively become the dominating factor - might involve a lot shuffling, or walking around. (Board-centric technique is likely to be true of any board, but some more than others, and it’s my guess that this one falls in the ‘others’ group.)
kc
Basically what I am thinking too, I surf with the guy a lot and know his skill set, that helps but most older surfers get to a point where they can ride any design and ride it well.
The guy who wants this board copied has only ridden it once, in semi-clean and OH conditions.
Around here, we call him “Danger Boy” with affection because he isn’t always in control so to speak.
He is a charger though, DOH at our gnarliest breaks.
I can do the board but its hard to shape something out that I don’t believe in, seems like this is a one off type of bottom contour that serves no purpose other than creating glue up and glassing nightmares…lol.
Oh, and he wants it to be a quad set up too.
Eeesh.
It's sort of funny when you think about it, but surfing owes a lot to these local 'danger boys' - past and present. I've known a few, and whatever I thought of them out of the water, in the water most have had and continue to have my complete respect – as long as the 'danger' handle didn't refer to a tendency to abandon all etiquette in the line-up.
They are also great local marketing tools. Sounds cold, but it's just life. Perhaps you should consider trying to get him on something you think he'll excel on.
In general people are fascinated by people who are trying to 'push the limit', and if it appears the guy's got some heart, often admiration and respect follows. Doesn't mean you'd necessary want him over for dinner, but getting him on the right board might be worth a lot to you in the long run (and him too.)
So maybe the question now is, what do you think he should be on?
kc
I like your point! The Dangerboy reference is about his knack for some hairy situations, its Oregon and we get some conditions that scare some people (me)…lol. But he is out, no matter and goes TOH when its on.
He has alot of boards so I would think he might want to fill a whole in the quiver. We were going to do a SUP for him but he wants another HPLB, quad, 9’8", about 28" wide…with these channels down the rails.
Thats a SUP really but without the thickness.
Surfers, who needs’em? (sarcasm)
The board is free for him, it was part of the deal when I bought my house from his son.
I would like to see him get a real SUP, he uses an Aipa 10’2" boardworks thing for that…he s a good SUP’er, placing at the Noll last week on a borrowed C4 Sub Vector quad.
I understand the 'hard to shape when you dont believe in it ' comment, I'am exactly the same..as much as I want business, it is very hard to put your name to something you dont truly think has performance benefits so when this happens I try to understand what theory is behind the design, if possible ride the board being copied and learn more about it...you'll then become more involved and interested and then be able to put your spin on it, maybe a subtle tweak here and there to make it perform better in your opinion....perhaps you can also have a surf of it when Danger Boy is in the waves near you next time and you can see for yourself and then you can learn what it truly does or doesnt do.......best of luck.....
The board is free for him, it was part of the deal when I bought my house from his son.
It's a matter of integrity. You offered a free board in a business deal right? What is the issue?
Make him the board that he want's not what you want. It's for him not you. Don't mean to sound harsh however, been there done that. Every surf town has a "Danger Boy", when I was a kid we would call them, "OUT OF CONDICK"!
Whenever you try and give this type of surfer what you personally think is best he will never be happy from a NEROLOGICAL perpective. Just get it over with and make the board he wants so you can focus on boards you like to build.
A deal is a deal!
Honor it!
I hear ya surfding, thats my intention, it doesn’t matter to me what I build him but its the first time he has had the chance to work with a shaper for a board he wants and I want it to be a good one for him.
The board we looked at though…was…ah…funky.
I will refine what I can on the design to suit the TOH stuff he wants to surf on it and hope for the best.
Hey, thanks for link, some very cool info (especially the velo’s as my last 7 boards were hulls and mini’s with a super stub in the works).
Give him what he wants then you will earn his trust on the first one.
The next one you can woo him!
I wouldn't argue with surfding's point, mostly because it simply does make good business sense, at least in general. A contract is a contract.
But I am curious as to what you might think he should be on, if only as an exercise in design.
What a 'danger boy' is, is likely to differ from locale to locale, but most of the 'danger boys' I've known have tended to be real 'escape artists'. It's as almost as if all they need is something to get them out to the wave, then into the wave, and then out of the wave – alive - with not much else happening, at least between the latter two steps - getting into and then out of the wave. Which admittedly, seems to be what a lot of people want, or you might be lead to believe they want, after watching them surf on less than gnarly breaks.
But with 'danger boys', at least given the kind of surfer which the phrase brings to my mind, like doing it, that “out-in-out and escape” action, when most would think twice, or have already ruled it out as insane. For those early danger boys in Hawaii, the board of choice was the gun... but the waves don't really have to be that big, just nasty, which given where I live, usually means 'stormy'. As when a big low passes nearby, spewing out head-high short-period, virtually set-less waves, that tend to break is less than predictable ways.
So if your inclined, project a little. Who knows when you start to really try an analyze this fellow, it might turn out that a board that offers a stiff and straight ride with a lot of acceleration is just what he should be on, and even stranger, maybe that's what he is seeing in the channeled rail board.
Then again, if you've not inclined... that's fine too.
kc
Yeah, this was just a ‘bro’ thing, to sweeten up the house for him. I am no pro, only shaping for a year now but surfing for 40 at least.
I don’t sell too many boards, maybe 18 of the last 25 I have shaped.