the irony is their kids are gunna put them in a nursing home anyway
cuz there no love there
it was lost in their pursuit of the dollar
===============================================
please, give us a break.
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i spose by boomer standards
they are poor! …
im in the working poor generation
and im pretty well paid by most standards
still renting though
as are all my 30 somethingmates with kids
the whole made in china thing is the legacy of the greed and self interests of the majority of the baby boomer generation
global warming
yup
child slavery in the third world
yep
deforestation so they can have there nice qwila outdoor barbyQ area …
the irony is their kids are gunna put them in a nursing home anyway
cuz there no love there
it was lost in their pursuit of the dollar
Ah, getting side tracked here…and this doesn’t sound like you, Paul. Painting an entire generation worldwide with the same brush? Would you like to rethink this post, or should we take it to another thread and throw down for the flat-spell entertainment of the peanut gallery (and only if done in the spirit of hopefully semi-humorous, Brit-Parliment style debate)?
As to the topic…
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Now, I don’t want to start a war between pro or con-machines. Just point out that those who use them should stand behind their choice and clearly write “machine-shaped, hand-finished”, not “hand-shaped”… - Balsa
As long as there is money to support them, the machines will stay. Survival of craftspeople in the business of making surfboards may well depend on attitude and marketing. As the attitudes of consumers in general pretty much accept all construction methods, it makes good sense to market the boards as they are…labeling differentation for hand shapes, hand finished, and other methods better educates consumers and in the end might help the hand shapers as consumers realize that there is indeed a difference in the product. The same builder may offer hand finished at a certain price level and hand shaped at another…would consumers pay more to actually see their specific board shaped, even if it essentially was the same as a machined board? I think there is room for that.
Artist as opposed to manufacturer…artist and manufacturer…evolution…
Nels
I have a friend that makes his boards with a hand planer, a sureform, a sanding block, scissors, chisels, a spreader, a bucket, a stick and sand paper. Shaped and glassed. He make a really nice board, I’d listen to his complaint or anyone else that did it with no power tools at all. I’d also listen to anyone that just used a straw for his compsands too.
…Im not a purist,
but its a money trip
you can live building boards without any machine
yes you can
yep point taken Nels
i said the majority
not all
i should have use “a fair percentage” or “a lot of”
gross generalizations yes
and i apologize once again
i gotta thank some boomers for some great things as well
but it does give a gist of the how i feel about some clothing guy with more money he can poke a stick
buying one of those shaping things and flooding small markets
its all about the money
ive been in the workforce long enough to know that a shaping machine like this means people will loose jobs
and wages in the industry will go down and it will be used as a way to blackmail staff into making compromises
thats just capitalism
shall we give them a good pat on the back
or should we say “bite me asshole”
i know what id say
theres to much depth to modern society to discuss on an internet forum
but i dont take back anything i said
im pretty sick of boomers dictating my life through politics,law,employment and economics
values are changing
its okay to say “f$#k”
and i dont need outdoor furniture made of rainforest timber
but i see wankers buying it up at the local furniture store
and i see plenty of manufacturers that once employed kiwis and ausies moving offshore to china
these businesses are owned by boomers
and they have plenty of money already
a lot of people cant see past the dollar
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i said the majority
not all
i should have use “a fair percentage” or “a lot of”
gross generalizations yes
and i apologize once again
i gotta thank some boomers for some great things as well
Okay, fair enough…because
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but i dont take back anything i said
im pretty sick of boomers dictating my life through politics,law,employment and economics
values are changing
The generation after yours will be saying those same things about you! It’s just how it goes…and we’re all in it together, if in different phases and stages…
Nels
the voice of reason
id like to meet you one day nels
sometimes i need a steady hand to stop me slipping off the pier:)
In 1964, that’s what a young “rebel” was singing:
"Come mothers and fathers all other the land
And don’t criticize what you can’t understand.
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command,
Your old road is rapidly agin’.
Please, get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand
For the times they are a changin’…"
Just food for thought.
wow the 5 axis movement is pretty cool. surprised the movement rather slow. seems like if you are going to design a 5 axis machine the emphasis be on speed and efficiency. having designed and maintain my own machine I know abit of pragmatic design for daily use. IMHO that machine is way over engineered for surfboard milling. I can see soo many possible problem areas that could arrise. not a very good design in terms of efficiency of space. with the machines that are already milling boards now, they can cut twice the feed rate and cut two boards in the same space that machine takes.
Man, it’s going to start raining CNC shaping machines soon. Any chance of some photos of your one by the way?
deanbo, sorry, I like to keep it under wraps. honestly, being in the machine business and from what I know most machines that are available over the counter are mainly glorified profilers. using 2D method of programming and creating surfaces and calling them 3D. what you scan is not even remotely what you get. mainly just overly algorithim surfaces from pre set perameters. you guys have nothing to worry about.
Jeez
Sometimes I jump on Sways for a read and an escape into board building fantasy land but too often I hear Chicken Little crying out that the sky is falling !
The next morning looking out to sea makes me realize it’s still the same out there, same view ,same sunrise, same ocean. Don’t panic all the important things are still the same.
Mooneemick
5 axis is cool, but I think you are right, too much in a machine like that, a fair bit more maintenance needed then simpler designs. The more complex you make something, the more can go wrong.
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Quote:Edit: Darcy hand shapes are using their services. Hand shapes straight from the machine…
Haavard, this made me raise an eyebrow, too.
Nothing personal against Glen DARCY who makes very fine boards, nothing personal against all those guys using machines for production, but isn’t it about time to protect a “hand-crafted” label? Shaping a surfboard from a rough blank can hardly be compared to sanding off a few machine ridges, IMHO.
ROFL!!
you would be surprised how many “handshaped” boards come out of a machine…
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for a guy who is in the surfboard business to make a living ..then the logical direction is to make it profitable , without making it lower quality …
Making a living is always a relative thing. Is it a living with surfing at one’s local beach and driving a reasonable automobile and whatnot, or is it a living with several plane and boat trips a year and the new SUV or Porsche or whatever?
Because the economics of shaping for the small time custom guy still seem to be profitable to me, as viewed from the outside. Am I mistaken? How about longboard shapers? Can’t a guy still get his Walker blank and sandpaper for $100, shape one a day, send it out for glassing and fin box (will $300 cover that?), and get it back and collect $700 from the customer and put the left over $300 in his pocket? (with new longboards in shops going for $1100 or so, I suspect that $700 is what he’d get from shops as well, no?).
Five boards a week, $6k a month, and a comfortable life even in SF or Santa Cruz or Santa Barbara or LA.
Is this impossible? Is one board a day too much to ask? Sounds like a beautiful lifestyle to me.
That’s valuable input - thanks OAK
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IMHO that machine is way over engineered for surfboard milling.
I agree. Surfboards don’t require a 5 axis machine. 5th axis machines are for under cuts and angled pocketing. Surfboards don’t have any of these. This machine won’t cut a board any better than any of the existing 3 axis machines.
However, if they mounted a horizontal cutter like a planer blade to it instead of the router, they would really have something…I really should have patented that before I blurted it out.
A planer blade setup would need to be at least 4 axis, you would need to change the angle of the cutter as you moved out to the rails. I guess that’s the thinking behind this machine, 5 axis means you get a ready to glass finish in the same time as a pre-shape from a 3 axis machine.
Hey Kenz, maybe you should invent a finbox system that works with that router. One where the slot is perfectly compatible with existing fins, but the part of the base that gets glued in is rounded to the same radius as the cutter. All they’d have to do is plunge it in & they’re box ready as well as glass ready… glass over the boxes is stronger & saves time anyway…
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A planer blade setup would need to be at least 4 axis, you would need to change the angle of the cutter as you moved out to the rails. I guess that’s the thinking behind this machine, 5 axis means you get a ready to glass finish in the same time as a pre-shape from a 3 axis machine.
my personal system is a 4 axis system. cutter design is one the most crucial design aspect to achieving a nice finish for minimal finishing time. the design and size of that particular cutter head would make it very limited to detailed cuts. just for example, if you want a highly detailed deep fish swallow that cutter would be limited. also with a cutter that big you will still have to deal with finishing of all criss-cross steps over cuts. 5-axis doesn’t mean a better finish necessarily. with a cutter that big you would have to run diagonal along with horizontal cuts to get a decent finish at the cost of longer cycle times and you would still have to deal with hand finishing. Cycle times is the key, if it takes the shaper one extra pass with a finishing pad but the machine takes twice as long it will cost you time and money. With the capable feed rates of machines already running they are easily twice as fast and cut two boards at the same time in less floor space. So, at the end of a long day you would have twice as many boards in half the time. With no real gain on the back end for finish time.
absolutely not possible for that board in the quick time clip to be glass ready off the machine. you would still have to deal with hand finishing and detailing. Which would then become a moot point for the need of a 5-axis just for milling boards. my main priority for the design and approach to my machine is maintaining the integrity of the HAND SHAPED design. relying on incremental cross sections to CREATE surfaces you have lost all integrity of the modeled board.