Very Funny!!! Thanks for the great read. I will change my pants later.
Yeah what’s in a name of a board? What is a little trade name infringement between countries???
I want to start a new board brand called diet coke???
It’s the real thing…really!!!
You miss my point. I was tring to be funny but I seem to be the only one laughing. You are worried about a minute part of the material cost to make a board being from china and you don’t even realize most to the material is somehow from china or asia. If fact where does all the other stuff you use to make the board come from. Probably asia!!! Just so it’s in the hands of an over paid American or non asian when making the product, then it’s ok?
It’s sad that Americans can’t get the gov’t handouts like the Austrailans for marketing their stuff??? It promotes business to Aus and it the funds are used for marketing. Gosh, just think if USA produced probox had that deal!!! Even with that crap is crap and if the better fin box is made in asia then I want the best. Ignore my surfrider foundation and I love John Kerry bumper sticker on my car and board, I want what the pro’s have. The better cars used to be made in europe and think idiologically the German nationals live a terrrible life compared to my fellow Americans. It wouldn’t stop me from buying the best car I can afford from europe.
So your whole arguement is idiological in nature. Your down with asia sentiment( for not being like America) makes me only think that I am glad you sell bikinis and surfboards and not make policy in free market societies.
We probably agree on more than you think. I thought I detected a bit of crass humor in your post. I don’t sell Bikinis…ever…under any set of circimstances. I only sell surfboards and that is not how I make most of my living. I do that by dealing with people who own their own business. I am in a new business almost every single day. As for making policy in free market societies. I don’t think I could possibly do worse than what we have. As it is…our policies benefit other countries and a select few American manufaturers that can afford the large orders.
I agree with almost all of your point on where stuff is made. I don’t think my point of the reason we deal with these countries is not correct …though in all honestly…I think it only shows how hypocritical we are in our thinking. “we” can’t have slaves or crappy labor conditions…but “we” will deal with countries that do. Hey…what are we to do about it…not much. It’s too hard to make it on your own. My asian sentiment has zero to do with them not being like America. heck…that would be a positive in some respects. It’s mostly to do with things like child slavery, communism, horrible human rights violations, and horrible environmental regulations and our country helping foster more of that for the sake of giant profits. It’s really only that and unfortunately only ideological cause most Americans don’t give a flip. Most people for that matter. Again back to making it on your own being hard enough.
Why are you down on probox? Seems like your insinuating they are crap? Correct me if I am wrong. Probox is made in the U.S.A. and appears to be equal to all the rest. What …do you think I am on their payroll or something. Ha Ha.
For me…I will sell nothing in the way of surfproducts I don’t believe in which is why I got out of the surf shop business. Almost every item sold out of surf shops is over hyped…poorly made (clothing mostly) crap that has almost nothing do do with going surfing (fashion wear) even the hardgoods have more to do with marketing that actual quality. Most of us that have surfed awhile know the difference in surfboards and in the end even most of that will ride waves.
If the better fin box is made in Asia then I want that fin box as well. Let me know when that happens. So far…they are all about the same in quality and some fare better than others in what they will do. I personally like that probox is made in the U.S. My comments on boardbuilders is this: many of them make a big issue out of chinese made stuff and stinkeye others for dealing with Asia…but as you say…they themselves support many Asian made products at the expense of American made. Again…back to hypocrisy. A better way to put it…buy from me not them because…then make up something that sounds like it would make sense as a reason.
Quote:Firewire??? what’s that?
Firewire is the greatest or smallest threat to the Tech Imperials. It is a nation that is seperated by sea and swell centered across two continents.
Five years after Ground Zero, Firewire nation was born, the latest entry into a war that has started since roughly 50 BGZ (before ground zero) when a young lady changed the quest and hunt for waves.
The most numerious and prolific nations, were the consolidated pop out nations, lead by the great Imperial STech, catergorized by automobile paint jobs. Bolstered by its leader, the M. Randy French (Misour), they currently have extended victories but at a great cost, as noted by the general people’s indifference to them. They had gained the advantage by production line creating mass units at volume low cost, and due to the bickering between the People’s Pupes (Pu / Pe) armies and the Republic of EPS / Epoxy air force, both of which utilize hand built units and human trained personnel. The Pupes and E/E have the most diverse and varied units, if consolidated, they could have turned the tide against the mass produced army of the Consolidates. At the moment, they hold the general populace holds them in their hearts and minds.
Now Firewire, with advanced Mecha ( Mecha, also known as meka, mechs or giant robots, are walking robotic vehicles controlled by a pilot. Mecha are generally, though not necessarily, bipedal ) with robotic technology / manufacturing, energy weapons and internet / gps may change the battlefield. With deep resources and refined technology, transformers (more than meets the eye) and kawaii anime girls with guns, many feel the war will turn in their favor. With connections they can access the Matrix and WWW at once, but many remember, they are only human.
The most eclectic and powerful group, wood rebels, whose traditions date backl to many millennia, and whos craftsman are highly trained, are the smallest group. They are as badass as Chuck Norris and can pull such things as he can like winning connect four in only 3 moves, and do things he can’t like make Diff guns out of agave and balsa or make great battleships that go really fast or deck o card thick fins, and glossy hollow units that Lord Boots had tried to take over. Like Chuck, they wait . …
from wiki
FireWire is Apple Inc.'s proprietary name for the IEEE 1394 interface (and also in the UK a colloquial industrial term for ‘LHDC’ (linear heat detecting cable) used in high integrity fire detection systems). It is also known as i.Link (Sony’s name) or IEEE 1394 (although the 1394 standard also defines a backplane interface). It is a personal computer (and digital audio/digital video) serial bus interface standard, offering high-speed communications and isochronous real-time data services. FireWire has replaced Parallel SCSI in many applications due to lower implementation costs and a simplified, more adaptable cabling system. IEEE 1394 has been adopted as the High Definition Audio-Video Network Alliance (HANA) standard connection interface for A/V component communication and control[citation needed]. FireWire is also available in wireless, Fiber optic and coaxial versions using the isochronous protocols.
Almost all modern digital camcorders have included this connection since 1995. Many computers intended for home or professional audio/video use have built-in FireWire ports including all Apple, Dell (except the Inspiron 1501 and Latitude 131L) and Sony laptop computers currently produced. FireWire was used with initial models of Apple’s iPod, but later models eliminated FireWire support in favor of USB due to space constraints and for wider compatibility.
Ha ha…where is the avatar when you need him?
Now that’s the best thing i have heard in a long,long,long time ! can we get off the china thing now, my computer’s from china and it mad at me ?
I am not down on probox the idea is superb and if I recall about two years ago they were the hottest thing in the shop for a few months. I happen to know where they are made because it was a home grown idea and product. I think we had some of the gray prototypes too. I wonder if the plastic mold infuser technician for probox is pulling down the big green to make everyone feel better? Can we research the pay for that position and the benefit package?
What I was saying I have never even considered where a fin box is made. If it’s crap and doesn’t live up to the hype then it won’t be successful. You talk about probox like it is the hottest and newest thing around. On paper it’s cool but the orders have dried up about 18 mos ago at the place I work now.
Can we start a thread on any problems with the probox?
Lets face it, if R.F. doesn’t give the system the nod for his boards it must have limitations.
You talk about probox like it is the hottest and newest thing around. On paper it’s cool but the orders have dried up about 18 mos ago at the place I work now.
Can we start a thread on any problems with the probox?
Lets face it, if R.F. doesn’t give the system the nod for his boards it must have limitations.
Really? I have not mentioned probox but on a few threads ever. I only did it recently to found out more about them. However…I do think the idea appear to be one of the better ones around. Still open on that though. As for orders drying up at your place…maybe it’s because you have switched to Surftech Desert Island and the surfboard God’s are not smiling on you. Ha Ha.
As for R.F. well…who is that?
The place you work now. Where is that…Merrick…Lost…Rusty…your garage? Why start a thread on whats wrong with probox. We have had two threads on the subject and no one said anything bad about probox, lokbox or many of the others. Got news…orders don’t dry up…someone decides to start using something or not. It’s about that simple.
I am not down on probox the idea is superb and if I recall about two years ago they were the hottest thing in the shop for a few months. I happen to know where they are made because it was a home grown idea and product. I think we had some of the gray prototypes too. I wonder if the plastic mold infuser technician for probox is pulling down the big green to make everyone feel better? Can we research the pay for that position and the benefit package?
I bet that mold tech is making at least 10x what the same guy in China is making. Aren’t all the fin systems just molded plastic? Once the mold is made, it’s going to the lowest cost manufacturer to pump out product, just like all other products. Why is this even an argument? I don’t think comparing automated plastic injection molded parts to surfboard manufacturing is relevant, unless a mass produced one-size-fits-all board is what one wants…
Quote:I am not down on probox the idea is superb and if I recall about two years ago they were the hottest thing in the shop for a few months. I happen to know where they are made because it was a home grown idea and product. I think we had some of the gray prototypes too. I wonder if the plastic mold infuser technician for probox is pulling down the big green to make everyone feel better? Can we research the pay for that position and the benefit package?
I bet that mold tech is making at least 10x what the same guy in China is making. Aren’t all the fin systems just molded plastic? Once the mold is made, it’s going to the lowest cost manufacturer to pump out product, just like all other products. Why is this even an argument? I don’t think comparing automated plastic injection molded parts to surfboard manufacturing is relevant, unless a mass produced one-size-fits-all board is what one wants…
I think at this point…probox is 100% made in the U.S. I think even Futures is made in the U.S. not sure about the rest.
You are right. As a broker of surfboards the problems one might encounter installing certain fin systems would be of little concern to you.
That Nice board on the main page of Keith’s with the white box install looks perfectly sweet.
Again, probox is a nice system for pu, flat bottom boards.
I have seen difficulties with probox failures with 1lb and less eps. If someone orders one they get put in though. I think the fad came and went in Hawaii a few years ago. Lets hear from the factory guys how many are being put in for stock boards. There certainly has to be a few out there.
The talk of all the possibilities with changing angles/fins is not the norm for the surfers we supply also known as the public. Wax, shorts and tasty waves. I wish more surfers had probox so when they are going to shore for the fin and fin angle swap outs there will be more waves for the permanently fixed fin losers in the lineup.
I think I have read posts in the past on problems with the system. Most recently the woman shaper from the east coast and others with rip outs in eps, I think with a paddle board. I only can judge things on my experience from the last few years with them. I guess time will now tell regarding durability and usefullness for all those who use them now.
which systems where you whinning about initially a few posts back regarding hypocritical shapers having the nerve to use something from Asia?
sounds like you have a beef with those systems, hypocrits and the surfing industry in general.
I am sorry to hear that you don’t sell bikinis because I have this reverse thong design(skinny part in the front) that I want to market!!!
You are right. As a broker of surfboards the problems one might encounter installing certain fin systems would be of little concern to you.
That Nice board on the main page of Keith’s with the white box install looks perfectly sweet.
Again, probox is a nice system for pu, flat bottom boards.
I have seen difficulties with probox failures with 1lb and less eps. If someone orders one they get put in though. I think the fad came and went in Hawaii a few years ago. Lets hear from the factory guys how many are being put in for stock boards. There certainly has to be a few out there.
The talk of all the possibilities with changing angles/fins is not the norm for the surfers we supply also known as the public. Wax, shorts and tasty waves. I wish more surfers had probox so when they are going to shore for the fin and fin angle swap outs there will be more waves for the permanently fixed fin losers in the lineup.
I think I have read posts in the past on problems with the system. Most recently the woman shaper from the east coast and others with rip outs in eps, I think with a paddle board. I only can judge things on my experience from the last few years with them. I guess time will now tell regarding durability and usefullness for all those who use them now.
which systems where you whinning about initially a few posts back regarding hypocritical shapers having the nerve to use something from Asia?
sounds like you have a beef with those systems, hypocrits and the surfing industry in general.
I am sorry to hear that you don’t sell bikinis because I have this reverse thong design(skinny part in the front) that I want to market!!!
You obviously can’t read. I was not whining about any fin system from asia or anyone having the nerve to use such a system. I was party to one company giving another company a hard time for dealing with a board company that had their boards made made in asia. The company giving the other company a hard time about asian surfboards bought fins made in asia. Thats the hypocrisy. Either way does not bother me other than ideological. They are both legal. I will take the best regardless of where they are from. It’s pretty clear to see the market the asian surfboards inhabit at this time…which is probably why I don’t own any of them. Hey…maybe I will have some boards made over there one day. Who knows.
I definitely have a beef with the herd instinct in the surf industry in general which is why I am not part of that. Sounds like you are. No problems…it takes all types.
As for brokering surfboards. Partially. I sell surfboards whose shapes I have been pushing for years…shapes I personally had designed from masters. I use some of the best craftsmen in the business and ones I am familiar with. Not once have I bought into the herd mentality of buy whats hot. At least not since I sold my surf shop. I don’t miss that part of it one bit. Problems installing fin systems are not an issue with me or the shapers I use because they know how to put all box systems in correct. I don’t let magazines or whats hot dictate to me what system to use. I try and use the best of whatever is out there. I have probably used more futures than anything else up to this point, but they are begining to have issues with distributors that few in florida like very much. I like proboxes having just found out about them because of the many options. I also have an interest in lokbox.
I see Becker, Bing, and others have used probox and I have never heard them complain about the things you keep trying to accuse them of. Bing I know is very quality conscience and wouldn’t use probox if they were as bad as you say and I have seen them on plenty of concaves for your information. If broken boxes are a problem for you…FCS should take the cake on that one. If you have a beef with probox why not simply come out and say it…cause you have not given one credible example that any of what you say is anything other than your personal opinion or issue with them. Why didn’t you post any of this over on the probox or fin box thread?
probox only on flat bottomed boards and they are a fad…OK…thats the first I have heard any of that. Where is Billy Goats gruff when you need him.
Okay, I’ll bite and state the dumb obvious, one is Fire Wire, the other is Firewire, two similar names, two separate industries, both known internationally. But you already know that.
I also know of Quicksilver, and Quicksilver, two have same name, two separate industries, both in Aus, both known internationally. You may already know that too.
I’ve also heard of sex slaves, don’t know any country that actually promotes it, some people do it just to survive, some people actually choose it as a past-time, occurs around the world too. Know that too, okay, fair enough.
If any company manufactures a good quality product, call it what you want, made anywhere in this small world of ours, there will always be someone who will buy it, for their own reasons.
The bottom line for me is the thing needs to work. I’ve seen big name dogs and back yard bliss, foreign quality and Austramerican crap.
Ride what you like and be happy with it, freedom of choice, your choice. And if you happen to choose badly, you can only hold yourself responsible, and hopefully you learn from the experience. No blame, more knowledge, some people call it experience.
On a more swaylocks note, build your own and be fully stoked. Nothing like it. Except surfing it of course.
"Why didn’t you post any of this over on the probox or fin box thread? "
I did post an honest opinion on your fin box thread.
As for as your “hey I love this really cool fin box system” thread, it is foolish to argue against personal testimony and experience. I am glad you guys are stoked on it.
Believe me the customer support was always there above and beyond the others. And we and me had some serious issues that we solved and in my opinion where never considered in the initial r and d. But it sure seemed funny the modifications to the system today might have been from feedback of us who encounterend problems and inquired about it. There are multiple issues I have with the system just like I have dislikes with other systems. It went beyond personal preference as the issue for me with the system though.
Wow bing tried it?? Many manaufacturers have tried it as the group emails from the company shows. We carry them for those who order the set up on a custom. But to ever consider puting it on stock boards would never happen. When bing, becker and “others” go with it full on just let me know and I will change my opinion back to “personal preference” .
Seeing the beautiful boards on the "i love " thread were awesome. As an installer of the boxes I did’t see any details on how they had to modifiy the jigs for the quads or take an extra step with the unmodified jigs to accomplish the beautiful end results. I wouldn’t have to even consider that with the other fin box systems.
Most customers and board salesmen have no clue what goes on in the shop.
So until you install one in a complex bottom close quad set up they will be the best thing since sliced bread.
"Why didn’t you post any of this over on the probox or fin box thread? "
I did post an honest opinion on your fin box thread.
Most customers and board salesmen have no clue what goes on in the shop.
So until you install one in a complex bottom close quad set up they will be the best thing since sliced bread.
You seem more against pro box here than over on that thread.
Greatest thing since sliced bread. Ha Ha…you don’t know me very well. I have way more research to do and I mostly enjoy selling singles anyway. Personal prference. I know what goes on in in shops since I used to own one half of one. Granted…I have never been a board builder…nor to I ever claim that practical hands on knowledge. I have been around surfboard factories and surf shops since the late seventies. I do agree…most folks live in a fantasy world when it comes to surfing, surfboard building and surf products. One of the biggest issues in this industry and also the reason folks can sell alot. Without the hype and sales pitch (plenty of which has been done by builders themselves) the whole thing would fall apart. It’s almost dependent upon fantasy to survive.
There all not going with Probox because it’s like FCS. Why change to something better, when no one is complaining about the same old, same old. It’s just like hand shaped EPS boards…why change when I can get a poly board for $100 less.
FCS works and it’s easy for the guys to put in. Why have to learn a new process…it’s just that simple.
Probox is a better set up. And yes I have blown out a few side boxes, but it was builder error.
FCS= “hey can I borrow your screw key”
PB= “hey can I borrow your screw key, and do you have an extra red insert for the side fin, got some sand paper to make the tab fit in better, leave the car door unlocked cuz I will be making frequent pit stops for fin changes”
I agree, on paper the pb is an excellent idea. We were very excited on the possibilities and they never panned out for us.
I would like to hear the multiple blowout stories and why you are convinced it was builder error. If you follow the direction phamplet there should have been no problems right??? Is the line too close on builder error versus system downsides? Have you ever seen a blowout in a preglassed futures?
A little over a year ago it wasn’t the same old same old regarding EPS epoxy boards with the pu blank shortage. Now with the pu back in stock you are right. Most surfers just want a board for cheap. Is this where china comes in?
with all the accusations…I had to make a few phone calls for facts.
Guy Takayama uses proboxes exclusively for over a year now and has a testimonial coming out in the new Fin issue of Longboarding magazine.
Matt Calvanti of Bing uses pro boxes over a year close to exclusively at about 90% with equal 5% each to FCS and Futures (and only by request) Also…he will only use proboxes on Quads. Bing’s workers prefer probox over all other boxes because of the exellent direction provided and how easy they are to work with and install.
So it appears that there is more to the issues than meets the eye. I finally got my set to look over and I can say that it’s a first class well built system. I will be able to say more when I have actually tried one and spoken with my shaper after having installed one.
Not the lastest greatest it appears…simply a good system getting plenty of credibility from experienced shapers and craftsmen. I plan on contacting Lokbox to try a set of his fins as well.
I am one who uses Probox,FCS
…and I dont get out of the water to change fins.
I use a suitable nylon fannypack with a key attached to it via fishing line and carry 1-4 fins out with me
to either get a new board finned up properly or some boards I change out the center fin
depending upon the wave size and in general experiment. Quads n Tris.
Frequently it will be HH with a swell building in and I dont have to change boards
just fins. Alternatively, on a real good dying swell Ill downsize my fins(s) whilst
surfing. That nylon fanny pack is 100% reliable, had it out in over DOH Blacks never a moment
where I had to worry about it. It can also carry a can of soda or a ham sandwhich. 
Wow,
I didn’t mean to make a homework assignment out of our discussion or as you say accusations, but thanks for the info. Sounds like the new owners of pb will do well. When Guy’s uncle starts using them then I might really take note.
I guess I don’t get out much but don’t both those manufacturers make pretty much pu boards and single fins?? I have seen a bing twin fin before but I thought it had a loxbox system so it probably was a custom???
I am surprised of your conclusion of only being a “good system” after the contact with the CA manufacturers and their praise for the system. In pu boards it looks great and probably holds up comparitive to any post glass install box system. But the benefits of the fin possibilities makes it superior when compared those systems.
For me the durability of a pre glass install would out weigh any benefit of the ability to change the cant angle of the pb system. But that’s just my accusatory opinion.
The wind and surf has been so fun and perfect the last three days. Sorry not getting back to you sooner.
Great story Otis,
You are a very coordinated person to not only change a fin but the cant angle insert without losing any parts in the water. I personally like to keep it very simple. I can barely do it correctly without losing parts when the board is on a rack in an empty room.
I hope you know your story might be the end of the surf caddy now. You know, the apprentice sander who sits in the channel with your backup board. Another era gone!!!
I agree, on paper the pb is an excellent idea. We were very excited on the possibilities and they never panned out for us.
See here’s this we again… Otay, just say, you work for Surftech right? I mean how else would you know so much about production decisions internally at that company…
c’mon get out of that closet…