Long story but I sent the following board design to a reputable guy with a state of the art CNC machine. My document included a detailed drawing of the shape with the following description "TEMPLATE - clean curvy planshape as shown". He uses Shape 3D software. When he was done he told it would cost an extra $30 for design time which he said took one hour. Total cost was $150 for shaped blank.
to me this is a custom order where the end result isn’t quite like what the customer imagined/described. This happens with masonite and planer orders too. But this order has the extra risk in that an off the street order procedure hadn’t been established by the CNC cutter and this is a first for the CNC cutter who is normally used to getting files from other shapers or designing just for himself?
this is a very informative thread with the posts from the industry pros. Rachel’s account of losing thickness very interesting. What Surfding has to say about a deck rocker stick ties in with Mike Daniel’s explanation to me on matching deck rocker to CNC designs. Not that I need to know these things, I’m not even a hobbyist builder anymore, I just buy/borrow boards, measure them and go surfing nowadays! but its interesting
I'm changing my mind.....Just a little....
If you've been here for a while you know I'm not too keen on computer design.....More than one Pro has posted so far talking about scanning YOUR proven shape and then making a file and making changes from there.....I like that best. If I was to go CNC that's what I'd do.....
......I understand when a pro does not want to deal with a backyarder.....
We , as a group seem to be now bashing all machine operators and owners...That's not good .I don't think it was planned but........................................
I'm learning all the time
Ray
What does this story have to do with CNC board manufacture? ZERO
What does this story have to do with who ordered the board and his experience level? ZERO
What does this story have to do with shapers accuracy,attention to detail, and customer service? EVERYTHING
What the shaper uses to shape boards, and the experience level, amateur/professional status of the person making the order, have NO bearing on this story whatsoever.
The shaper took an order. If he wasn’t happy with the order for whatever reason, he should have asked for more info, or declined the order.
He shaped a board that did not match the order he accepted. The tools he used to shape the board are irrelevant.
The customer rightfully complained, the shaper got pissy, but eventually at least gave him his money back
Shaper score=4/10 (at least he eventually gave a refund)
Crafty score=9/10 (one point deducted for throwing CNC to the lions 
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Who is to blame ??
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I am. Because I assumed he would actually use my drawing to make his cad file by tracing over my image using his software. Or by simply eyeballing his drawing against mine and getting eye ball close, which would have been good enough for me. I did not want a finished shape, just needed it to be a close enough rough CNC shaped blank.
He is. Because he didnt use the drawing and focused only on numbers. He didnt use the "Load Image" function to import my drawing to trace over it. If he had done that we would not be having this conversation, Id be fine shaping the blank.
Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.
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Did the final product come out at the DIMENSIONS you wrote on the DRAWING - YOU PROVIDED ???
as in, 13.38" at the 12" Nose, 21" center, 16.17" at the 12"tail
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Interesting. So you and shaper God are both saying is that if I had provided the exact same order, but eliminated the words "clean curvy" from the description, and instead used this drawing below, I would have ended with the same result. Brilliant!
Interesting how important the numbers are to the machine Shaper Gods.
As for me, not much ART in numbers. Im staying away as far as I can from you numbers guys....this coming from an engineer.
I make the CURVES, use the numbers as ball park references and sacrifice the numbers in the process when I have to to make the CURVE Im looking for.
So here ya go Mitch, this drawing is 13.38" at the 12" Nose, 21" center, 16.17" at the 12"tail. Dead nuts perfect Numbers. I think this shape will go good, dont you think?.
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Shaper score=4/10 (at least he eventually gave a refund)
Crafty score=9/10 (one point deducted for throwing CNC to the lions ;-)
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Hey now wait a minute, read post #45.
Its just a tool? EXACTLY RIGHT!
Come into the group so I can give you a big hug! (You too Silly!!)
g’day Mitch, if I’m interpreting the info provided by Crafty at the start of this thread correctly, tail pod wasn’t specified, although other measurements such as tail width, nose width, wide point were.
6.39" is what the CNC cutter arrived at?
I can imagine what happened - the instructions “clean curvy outline as shown” when given on a basic drawing asking for CNC design indicated to the designer that the curve should be done by CAD rather than importing the shape otherwise why ask for a clean curve? So the CNC cutter would have assumed that the pic supplied was a conceptual representation only and there to illustrate tail type. As for the “lost rocket type” request I’m guessing that the CNC cutter said to himself “hmmm whats he mean by lost rocket type? never mind I’ll just go by the numbers and verbal description here”. He wants a curvy outline so lets pull in that tail pod to 6" or so.
I wonder if something like that happened?
I will go out on a limb here and say that the vast majority of the cut houses (dealing with pro shapers) do not use any image import functions. Why would they? It’s hardly accurate as in most cases the images have 3d-2d distortion, incorrect perspective, etc. Mapping/scanning existing boards with a fairly high level of accuracy is the industry standard.
I figure image importing is more of a backyarders tool, most likely used to “borrow” designs.
Crafty, thats not a good analogy! clean yes, curvy no and nothing like what the CNC man did for you - you got a curvy outline.
If you had specified tail pod width then that would have got you the right shape. Alternatively if you had said that your drawing is meant to be taken as a scale drawing rather than a conceptual drawing and explained that there is a board called a “lost rocket” which really does have that primitive looking shape so could the scale drawing be imported and cleaned up as necessary then you would have got the right shape.
But you didn’t do either of those things and thats completely understandable, you are testing a new process - and thats what Swaylocks is all about, so its just not possible to think of every pitfall first time. However props to you for posting this thread as it is informative to everyone.
I’ll tell you a story - back in 2003 or so I was building sandwich boards, this was before Bert arrived and no-one else on swaylocks was posting how to make these things. I went into Fiberglass Hawaii, Santa Cruz ordered a 8’ x 4’ sheet of corecel and asked them to split it down the middle to give me a deck and hull skin. No problem with that. The second time they split it across the middle and handed me two 4’ x 4’ pieces! as you know that stuff is expensive and I stared at it in horror. They probably thought I was making a skimboard. Then I apologised for not being specific enough, said of course I would pay for it but would they do me a discount on another sheet. The very decent bloke kept the first cut and did me another one for no cost 
Next time I went in my request went something like this - “split lengthwise down the middle please to give two pieces 8’ x 2’” :D Your CNC cutter is a decent bloke too - he didn’t charge you for the misunderstanding either.
Come on dude,
with that additude the CNC operator had NO chance what-so-ever of pleasing you.
He uses the Dimensions provided = He’s wrong
He uses a drawing and totaly disregards the Dimensions provided = Wrong again
What was he to do ?
Or better yet,
What should he follow a week later when he has the time to design and cut a one off,
whilst looking over your written order ?
P,S… I mean no offence here, Its more of a learning curve for guys new / new-ish to geting a boards created from nothing.
Be more specific, Use numbers, Write things down, If you dont care about numbers - write it on the order form which ones he can change at his own discretion,
When I went to pick it up I was in a hurry and couldnt do a quality check. I didnt see it until I got home. When I went back to him today to tell him the bad news, he was very defensive, never looked at the blank or my drawing just told me he hit all the "numbers". Nevermind the curves eh? Hows that 2 inch narrower tail block workin for ya Dave? Just unbelieveable. Anyway after some heated discussion back and forth I left with the blank, he called me while I was driving away and said to bring back the blank he would give me my moeny back. Could of been worse.
Not really sure what some people are smokin these days when it comes to delivering good services and customer care.
Why didn’t you just send him a file?
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Why didn't you just send him a file?
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Didnt have to. I sent him the order with the drawing he said "no problem, can do".
But if youre still wondering, I dont use Shape 3D software. Dont have any need for it - especially after today.
I do know about its capabilities, like being able to "load files" (digital photos, image files etc) and simply tracing over. I assumed this is common stuff he would do for me, considering the extra design fees he didnt tell me about before he started cutting. Had another guy a few years ago bait n switch me on a glass job price: $150 when I dropped it off, $200 when he was done one week later - almost left it there just based on principle, but I decided to get it and take the hit. Its like dealing with contractors, some are honest, too many are not. Oh well. live and learn. I know Mike Daniels and Greg Griffin are straight up dudes. Im sure they get lots of repeat business.
You know how it goes. If you want something done right, do it yourself. Looks like its gonna be a fun board. Both versions. Mike
Of course he charged you a design fee. You didn't have a design. Do you know how many curves you can come up with using just numbers. The outline you gave him was not precise.
This is the problem with machines, people like you, who do not shape want to think it is easy to come up with a clean outline,rocker, and foil. The machine will do it, right?
Complaining about $150.00? It should have been more to compensate for the money you took away from an actual shaper.
The machines were set up for established shapers, people who have actually shaped boards by hand first, not street walk ins.
Shame on the machine owner for even doing it for you
Randy Cone
It looks to me like like he gave him a design.That tail looks ridiculous on that shaped blank!It stated on his design form tht he wanted a lost rocket type board that is definately not what he got in my opinion.Just sayin.
