True, custom designed and handcrafted surfcraft (actually just about anything else these days) are rapidly becoming things of the past. In many cases, thats unfortunate for all of us. But the illusion continues... many "custom" surfboards are manufactured by everyone but the big name associated with the board: shaped by machine, fine sanded by another employee, glassed somewhere else by specialty laminators... sometimes even the shapers “signature” is open to question. Im not saying that such boards arent necessarily very well made or designed. I just wish the consumer was clearly informed as to their actual pedigree. I think it would be very informative for consumers to see a directory of all the surfcraft manufacturers who actually design and create their own true, custom equipment. What do you think?
sounds good to me. do you think it would hurt sales that much? I don’t, cause there are so many uninformed who’d never know either way. do you think the saleskid would tell a newbie his sexy designer board was contracted to the local shop that made the $200 cheaper board right next to it? doubt it.
A good idea but why should I believe a directory when manufacturers are already notorious for using ghost shapers, computers, Taiwan wholesalers, etc? What would it take to be listed? Who would ensure compliance with the “true/custom” standards? I can imagine a $250.00 listing fee to support a team of inspectors who would make surprise visits to factories where a game of musical shaping rooms would ensue. Didn’t Phil Becker and a few others allow appointments so you could actually watch your board being shaped? Either trust your label, watch it being shaped or do it yourself.
Gene Cooper shapes his own boards, as does Yater. So does Rod Sorenson.
I might be mistaken, but didn’t I see or read somewhere that Copperfish utilize KKL services? Not knocking’em in anyway just passing along the info.
that correct, i use the machine or go from an uncut blank. both ways the outcome is the same. i spend a lot of time shaping and tuning a programed blank, still a lot of hands on and a lot of variables. add the whole glassing process in and each board is quite a project. although some manufacturers run for cover on this subject, i don’t. i feel that the machine is a great tool and there’s no shame in using it.
Isn’t an electric planer a machine? A machine meant to trip doors, no less. I heard of guys in Cuba using potato peelers and polyurethane foam from the inside of old regridgerators. Pretty amazing.
An electric planer is moved around very skillfully by a human hand. You can’t just lay it down on the blank and press a few buttons. http://www.glyder.net
A machine is a machine. The skill is in the mastery of the tool by the user. It seems somewhat pointless for a shaper who has mastered a tool to repeat endlessly a standardized model. If the shaper/designer, after considering a surfers needs and wants, uses the machine as a starting point to a design for the individual, then the board would still be custom. The problem is not in the use of the machine, but in the fallout from such use. Jobs as rough shapers will no longer be available for aspiring shapers. The alternative for future shapers will be to experiment and practice in their own backyards. A bit like many of the younger Swaylockians…mnnn…sounds like back to the future.
John, youre right. My "shaper directory" idea was a bit naive.... why should we believe a directory when manufacturers are already notorious for using ghost shapers, computers, Taiwan wholesalers, etc? Attempts at ensuring compliance with the "true/custom" standards just wouldnt be worth the hassle. Patrick, I agree… especially for shapers whove mastered the planer, and are frequently repeating a standardized model. They need the help of replicating machines. I believe someday soon that aspect of surfboard manufacture will be 99% replaced, from start to finish, by machine processes. I was thinking more of shapers who arent locked into generating the same models day after day… and instead, create a wide variety of “one-off” custom equipment. This (and private builders) are historically where most surfcraft innovation have originated. Without a healthy homegrown counterpoint to large high volume manufacturers, we`re all losers in the long run. Dale
parmenter once stated that using the computers for boards was a deal with the devil- in the same article, he also had nothing against them- on the grounds of deals with the devil, china,tawain use machines to compete with the very same market that sold them the machines… as for the ‘back to the future’ post- could happen- and IS happening- but honestly, what i see coming to the shop from ‘backyard shapes’ are copies of what is currently in vogue…anything is possible thogh.
Most people these days dont seem to give a flyin fook about the details of how or who really made their latest stick. Its sticker price, brand name, appearance and then out the showroom door. That is until they start having “problems” of one sort or another. THEN they want to know all the details!
“Without a healthy homegrown counterpoint to large high volume manufacturers, we`re all losers in the long run.” Dale,I think you could substitute “honest” for “healthy” and still maintain the meaning. “Handcrafted” is used much like the “Organically Grown”. Your directory might be a “bit naive”, but a little push in the honesty direction I don’t think would hurt the surf industry. I think shaper raises an interesting point: Backyard builders frequently get caught up in measuring their skills against what the big mags say is a good board. Hopefully, with experience, these builders will gain the confidence in their abilities to strike out with their own designs.
I wonder how many “customs” are really just “off the rack” standards with the labels placed to order and a different paint job? So it might be off a little here and there from what the customer really ordered… they probably won’t notice anyway, right? A friend ordered a custom Velzy at my urging. There were a couple of nice Velzy stockers in the shop but he requested a sleek custom 9’8" double ender. He ordered through the shop but somehow ended up talking to Velzy’s agent. There was no way he was going to be able to watch. What he got (complete with his name penciled in under the glass) was a 10’4" lifeguard tanker complete with an air bubble in a gouge where a piece of the stringer had ripped a chuck of foam out. When he took delivery at the shop, he got the sales pitch and was reminded that with his name under the glass, it would be very difficult for the shop to resell to anybody else?! After that incident, I don’t have a problem recommending off the rack purchases… what you see is what you get. And Dale - I didn’t mean to imply that your good idea was naive.
fellas- john’s incident is unfortunate, and not getting to see your board shaped by a legend is equally a bum; i dont intend this to sound malicious, but lack of communication is the MAKE OR BREAK essence of ordering custom. i have personally experienced ‘sales reps, office personnel’ talking with customers about specifics on custom boards and those reps/personnel know very little if nothing at all about proper surfboard education. i demand to customers- yes! you can call me with any questions and together we will work out a solution - afterall, ordering a ‘custom’ involves many variables and lots of commitment from both parties- it is ok to be persisent when considering choices for your new stick- and if no one speaks up or one assumes that 'oh, my shaper’ll get it right- and it doesnt come home the way you’d have liked it- blame it on your boardbuilder AND yourself for not following up. it is your creation with the help of a sculptor and a glasser, so give it all of your collective energies. on the note of big labels being produced by machines/ghost shapers- if the particular ghost shaper has been skooled in the tradition(s) of his contemporaries, and can produce very similarily what his mentor did, then would that make him qualified to shape customs for people seeking a certain label- afterall, continuing the tradition is what it’s about, am i wrong?
Transparency in the market would be good for the discriminating customers and the scrupulous builders. But since most surfers don’t really care (cynical, aren’t I?), I think that as long as there is downward price pressure most manufactureres will pursue labor-saving strategies (i.e. machines and foreign workers), and continue to create misleading impressions with their labels and stickers. A niche remains for the custom builders, and some of them could make a good living by charging premium prices. Their marketing should emphasize the fact that their stuff is rare therefore precious. Even so, competition will remain stiff and there will be losers. Also, the volume manufacturers might devote a portion of their efforts to the premium/custom/R&D market, with the added strength of the popout business to cushion them whenever premium sales lag. A huge problem is the fact that board building techniques are such common knowledge and it’s so easy to copy shapes. The barrier to entry is pretty low for anyone who wants to try. Your custom mats are a different story, Dale, as are Paul’s hollow wooden boards. A directory would need to have a sterling reputation for integrity in order to be really effective, and gather its own data independently, sort of a Consumer Reports or Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. But where’s the business model in it? Would it accept ads from manufacturers? Would enough people subscribe or pay the cover price to float the project? How to make it work…
John, That is why Velzy is such a legend. He was the first crook in the surf industry. You freind is not the 1st person to of suffered the sting of doing business with Dale V, getting the board he didn’t order. I personally know several people this has happened to. Carrying boards to peoples cars so they can’t feel how heavy they are, ect… My favorite is when he was shaping boards for both Hobie and Harbour, pumping out like 10 a day for each factory, neither factory knowing he was shaping for the other. Meanwhile he isn’t shaping any of them, he is teaching a shaping class, charging students to learn how to shape for the masters. Real story, and one of many about Dale. Don’t get me wrong, I like Dale, I just don’t trust him. Sluggo
Sluggo . . . over sixty years of a man’s life experience all rolled up into one very brief, and pitiful paragraph. Almost like you were right there, huh? Cheap shot, buddy!
Somebody could write a book on Dale, I could go on if you like. These stories are what makes Dale so facinating, the legend he is. I mean know disrespect, but hey, these are things Dale did, not me. Sluggo
Dont’t confuse a custom surfcraft with a handmade surfcraft. IMHO, there are no custom surfboards in a surfshop unless they are used or someone bailed on the finshed board. You can argue 'till the cows come home about what constitues a handmade surfcraft, but a custom surfthing is for an individual and is based on the specific desires of the customer (oooo; custom/customer). Whether the customer requests “something, you know, loose” or “I want 4.5 inches of nose rocker blending into a flat center and a two stage tail lift”, the shaper should take the info and use their skill and judgement to create their vision of what the customer wants. You either know the shaper/builder and their reputation and trust the results or you get a copy of your DETAILED order form: Dimensions, bottom contours, fin set-up, glass schedule, color, etc. Then you can compare the results with your order to see that you got what you asked for. If the shaper/builder doesn’t want to do that, maybe you should think about going somewhere else. In the future, I expect to see $400 Rusty’s on the rack but I would have to spend a grand or more to have Rusty shape me the best board for Me at overhead Blacks…I could care less if he uses a potato peeler or a KKL, as long as its his signature on it: For Lee, Shaped by Rusty Preisendorfer. (The signature is key here “shaped by ***” If he signs it and didn’t shape it, its fraud and I can get my money back +…).