My everyday board is 6’6"x19x 2 3/8, 5 1/4" nr 2 3/8 tr , 11 1/2 n 14 1/4 t 5"tb, bottom - v between feet with double concave. In average surf in n.y. or costa rica ,board works fine( in c.r. up to a foot over head) - no problem, quite happy with the board - But when a solid swell comes to n.y. the wave here is a perpetual late take-off into a down the line freight train. I’m getting killed here , often on the drops or making the first section on 6’ waves, If it’s about 8’ I use my 7’1" and I’m fine. Soo- I need to make a different 6’6" for the down the line days here. What do I change on my current board ? (if you haven’t figured it out, I’m over 35, no make that over 55, but I’m in good shape - 5’8", 150 lbs) - can’t ride a long board- they’re too heavy to carry
If I can carry one of Ambrose’s 11 foot boards, and I’m only 5’5’’ and 140 pounds ringing wet…(laugh track, please).
i would go something with abit more meat in it say 2&5/8 and keep the double concave
lose the vee…too much suction not enough lift to get you up and riding early…
those 6’6 dims are pretty much what i ride here in FL (im 41 y/o & 175lb) …if youre having success with the 7’1 why not just use that or something similar?
Difficult take off + down the line trains then you might need more board than your every day board.
for fast downtheline:
-
smooth relaxed rocker
-
clean outline
-
smaller front fins and a larger center/rear - kind of like a bonzer,
-
no vee…either a flat or a concave or any suitable variation
…consider a new 6’10, good luck!
can’t ride a long board- they’re too heavy to carry
haaaahahahaaaaahahahaaaaahahaaaaahahaaaahahhaahhahahaaaaaaa
ha
ok, i’m done now.
OK, maybe I can carry a longboard, but I thought they were for REALLY old people. I tried a thicker board- didn’t help, I tried my 7’1’ - too much board, a good part of the problem is that the wave won’t let one in early- it doesn’t show any energy till it’s a late take off unless you’re on the shoulder, and longer boards don’t fit in it. The only people pulling it off are the kids on their shortboards. I actually did better on my wife’s 6’1" but after a short while between the low volume of her board and paddling against the rip I am shot. My thinking now is that maybe more tail rocker will help me get down the face and a single concave between the feet will help with a little lift (at this time I suspect concave up front - even shallow, holds you back at the top). I really hate giving up th v between my feet ,it make the board feel really fluid with either drawn out or pivoty turns. I was hoping to keep the v and maybe make the double concaves deeper. Some boards just seem to really take off as the wave jacks up, almost a no paddle take off. What is about them? My wife had a 6’5" that was like that but it’s gone now and I didn’t keep the stats on it, what a mistake.
Maybe wider nose; like 14-15 inches, and less nose rocker. Something like 4.5.
That will make for faster paddling, and better buoyancy under the chest.
You might want to go with a long single fin or a twin set-up for less drag.
I saw a bit of footage of Jerry Lopez shaping a coral cruiser repro in Sprout,
and he put a bit of vee in the tail. He was riding those at Pipeline in the early
70’s. You could probably keep the vee if slight.
Just a couple of ideas.
Standard shape and size, lose the concaves!
Concaves eat up wave power, causing lift. Don’t need lift, need to drop in!
Technique question really, not a board problem, as Bonga can drop into late Pipe on a log, good surfers usually choose narrrow, thin, tri fins.
If you ride really narrow, like under 18.5, then concaves can be OK, as narrow boards get over the hump into airdrops without problems.
As for paddle…get in shape.
I really hate giving up th v between my feet ,it make the board feel really fluid with either drawn out or pivoty turns. I was hoping to keep the v and maybe make the double concaves deeper.
I like v for the same reasons, mainly the control it offers. I’ve used v combined with heavier concaves and like it a lot. You sound like you already know what you want. Maybe just stretch the bottom curve out a bit and add a little thickness.
Standard shape and size, lose the concaves!
Concaves eat up wave power, causing lift. Don’t need lift, need to drop in!
Technique question really, not a board problem, as Bonga can drop into late Pipe on a log, good surfers usually choose narrrow, thin, tri fins.
If you ride really narrow, like under 18.5, then concaves can be OK, as narrow boards get over the hump into airdrops without problems.
As for paddle…get in shape.
Exactly Lee. My shorter boards have substantial concave in them sometimes a little vee in tail and ALWAYS a little bit of vee in the nose. When you are trying to catch waves you want the board to go downward and you want to make it easy for the water to get around the entry, not give it more to push against, or channel it into the center of the board, creating lift. I find that boards with just a slight bit of vee, fading out completely by 18" back paddle somewhat better, but catch waves way, way easier. Or is it just me?
rocker…the most important and yet still, the most overlooked design feature…i think the right equipment can make for better technique…too many variables to give black and white answers
hey patrick, go ahead and add more tail rocker and get back to us when those freight trains keep passing you by…sorry bro but this is typical, people come here asking for advice, but they’ve already made up their minds before asking…go to an experienced competent shaper and pick his brain.
Hey Lee, you know i agree with most of your recommendations but I gotta believe Greg L and I and others would disagree…one simple point, when your trying to make difficult drops you want to get you and the board out of the water as quickly as possible, especially for an older guy. I would never put in a design feature that would slow my take off…you love thicker tails right? Lift…thats the key and there are a number of ways to get it but vee is not one of them. On my bigger wave boards i use minimal concave, less than 1/8"…its almost flat really. No doubles, too much turbulence across the stringer…clean & simple bottoms are simply better. Just my educated opinion…we agree to disagree…
again its more about rocker to me anyway…onward
my weapon of choice for DOH fast non-hollow surf
6’8 x 19…notice the smooth rocker and thick tail…
At 55 plus years I would bump up the length a little and add a little more tail rocker, Unfortunately we’re not as quick when we age and staying on a shortboard doesn’t help. You don’t need a longboard by any means, maybe try around a 6-10. The V in your board is fine, Just make sure it’s really subtle.
I have a feeling you need to work on your technique. Paddle hard Look down the line as you are popping up. Pop up QUICK and at the top of the wave and get going!!! The quicker you’re on your feet the quicker you’ll be able to start gaining speed. Instead of going to the bottom stay high or mid face on the wave untill you are in control and are in sync with where the wave is going, then go hard off the bottom if you want!
hope this helps
C
Maybe just stretch the bottom curve out a bit and add a little thickness.
BINGO!
patrick, one critical thing you havent mentioned is how your getting killed…are you getting killed at the bottom of the drop or at the top when trying to stand? are the wave faces steep and flat or steep and curvy? makes all the diff…
btw, you should be getting killed…if your excelling in that surf at 55 on a shortie i say call the newspapers…
I’m from the right coast, and know the freight trains you’re talking about. some lurch up almost completely unannounced. getting in early is not really an option, and thus adding too much length as you say just keeps the board from fitting…
I’m no shape guru, but have meditated a bit on technique: as cantellya can tell ya, the quick pop up is key, but I’ve found that popping DOWN is really where you want to go. keep yourself compact, and almost throw yourself down the wave: really lean forward, hunched over, and don’t come to full extension at the top of the wave. The temptation is to uncoil at the top, then do the drop, but if you stay in more of a tight crouch, you can lean WAY more forward, then use the rest of your stand-up as your first speed-pump/redirect. It reminds me of learning to drop a skate ramp: it takes a bit to convince yourself to lean that far forward, but it works. your goal is to match the board to the slope of the wave.
hope it helps,
wells
ok-wells- you understand the wave, 6’ late takeoff, a rip coming out to the take off zone sucking the bottom out of the wave and trying to pull you backwards. The hangup spot is at the top, before you even get up. What I notice is that some boards are able to generate speed right away and get you in and get going. Forget about going to the bottom - as you get up you’re already angling down the line. The real challenge is to get going those first two feet. It’s only two or three strokes and you gotta be ,as wells says, lurching into it. My wifes 6’1"x18 3/8x2 1/4 sharp eye sb-1 has 2 5/8" tail rocker, it makes the drop fine and you can pump it to get the speed you need to give it a go. My challenge is to build a board of greater volume so I’m not worn out after a few waves. (I paddle/surf on a regular basis so I’m as fit as I can be) Maybe it’s only the low volume boards that can pull this off- I’m not sure. I’ve made a few boards for this spot and what I’ve learned so far is, a little more tail rocker has helped. keeping concave out of the first two feet helps. I’m gonna drop the v and try a single 1/8" deep concave between the feet and see how that goes. I’ve looked at a bunch of merricks both 6’1" and my size- 6’6" and he’s doing the same thing with both length’s (about 2 1/2" t.r. in the 6’6"). I’m posting here because I DON’T have the answer yet, but I am determined to not let that wave beat me.(the volume board I’m currently riding is fine for me at other breaks in n.y or c.r.-no problem, the challenge is this particular wave)
!!Hiccup!! excuse me…
Yah, the beachbreak rip-bomb…are there often little choppies stuck in the rip right at the takeoff, then rest of the line is clean? the kind that can sometimes smack the nose as they come up the face, causing a momentary hitch, or getting the board stuck in the lip? and some form little steep bits right as the lip pitches? sand in the lip? ever break your coccyx?
how about a subtle dome in the deck to add volume without sacrificing rail shape? I’m a bigger guy, and found I could surf tighter rails with a floatier board that way. I also maybe wouldn’t start the concave until after the entry, and maybe, just a very subtle belly in the nose, first foot or so, fading through entry smoothly into the con area to better handle the chop? not enough to plow, but just enough so that chops deflect towards center when your nose hits 'em?
Patrick-
I think you are already fine with the info and intuition you have- you know the wave and the results better than anyone else (many who I suspect don’t fully envision the pitching takeoff you describe. Huge difference in such waves vs waves just a bit more normal). The unfortunate thing is, sometimes you can’t beat time. The guys in your age range I surf with in pitching mini-Teahuppoo type waves all surf thin, narrow boards, 6-5 range, concave/double concave, with a bit more rocker. But they realize they will only get a couple, that these designs are inherently hard work to paddle, and are fine with that. I don’t think you can fight that with design for these extreme type of waves. If you do, I see awkward looking results. I go down 1/8 " - 1/4 " thinner and 1/4" more narrow with more nose rocker than the boards I use at normal breaks. But at normal breaks these plow and are slow, just worthless. They are also all pintails which seem to fit in a pitching takeoff better, with concave throughout and a double slight vee out the tail. Double OH to 3 OH plus I go to almost flat maybe very slight concave to vee in the tail with even sometimes vee in the nose, but that seems to work best only in the massive hollow stuff. But I notice that if I grab the wrong board at the really pitching takeoff breaks, even their little bit of extra thickness not only gives a false sense of security, but the extra corkiness seems to keep the board from dropping in just a little. Better to go thin, forcing you to position yourself a little further more under the lip, more critical, and just drop and tuck. You’ll find the extra nore rocker helps land these late near airdrops more often- you can feel the rails at the very front engage and know it would have been “bad” with less rocker. You gotta be honest though, no matter what your fitness level, if age has slowed you popup, then it’s going to be tough no matter what.
Oh yea, for your weight, your wife’s board is close. I would have said: pintail, length 6’3-6’6 x 18 3/8 x 2 1/4, rocker (measured when laid belly flat) 2 1/4 tail, nose
6 1/2" (!) for the 6’2 size range, up to near 7 for a 6’5. I know this is specialty nose rocker range.
It effectively shortens the board, allows for late drops just under the lip, and is only there if/when you need it.
for the pop down try layong on the edge of your bed and pop to your feet as you swing them off the edge of the bed. LAnd standing on the floor.