the elegance of the mat concept is the sheer simpleness of it. a bag of air a pair of fins and a wave. nothing can be added without ruining the blend
I understand the Purist ideaology but I think mats are overlooked as a vehicle and maybe its because of the ubiquitous rectangular design.
There are so many exciting shapes and new materials from quad to compsand to hydrofoil to epoxy but not for the Mat...?
There are a few obvious faults with "the blend" and that could be why so few ride mats. Keep a few examples of the old design in a museum somewhere but are mats not worthy of evolution ?
Surffoils your idea got me thinking and I beleive making a hybrid inflatable high performance board (not a mat) could be great for various reasons: you can make a board thinner than a PU or EPS because of the buoyancy of air, thinner is ussually more sensitive so if you keep the deck and rails semi stiff (maybe use fibergass and resin with no foam) you can actually make a relatively thin board that will float a heavy guy and control the flex patterns with the fiberglass layups like on a velo spoon. Second, a board wiyh an air core could be less prone to breakage due to air’s shock absorbing qualities. You could land a high air with no worries!
TonyLion, theyre the same or similar thoughts I had.
And who wouldnt want to ride something like that ?
[quote="$1"]
hi 'Grayman' !!
I'm really enjoying this thread ...
do you have any more ride reports / updates / further comments on your latest mat ... [eg : the performance ? weight ? how it's holding up ? what you would do differently , on the next one ? etc ]
cheers !
ben
[/quote]
Goes very well. Not as much hold as a 4GF Standard but more speed. Felt a bit cumbersome at first due to the extra size but soon adjusted to that. The material is very light compared to any mat I've come across so very pliable, enhanced by the Stippleback S-FAHT grip. Holding up well. Had to top up a couple of welds but fine. Not weighed it but it's very light.
Next mat will be made of slightly heavier material and will be a similare leangth to a 4GF Standard but I'm planning square corners. Aiming for it to be for bigger waves. Not for a while yet though.
[quote="$1"]
TaylorO, if Dales already done an inflateable board, Id been keen to check it out ! I'll PM Dale and see if he can give me a pointer where I can see it online.
CF deck and rails but keep an inflateable hull ?
How about this for a prone 'semi-stiffy'...
(end view)
[/quote]
Looks fun. The bottom would be ridged when inflated but there's your channels!
[quote="$1"]
I understand the Purist ideaology but I think mats are overlooked as a vehicle and maybe its because of the ubiquitous rectangular design.
There are so many exciting shapes and new materials from quad to compsand to hydrofoil to epoxy but not for the Mat...?
There are a few obvious faults with "the blend" and that could be why so few ride mats. Keep a few examples of the old design in a museum somewhere but are mats not worthy of evolution ?
[/quote]
Obviously mats are worthy of evolution. They're being evolved all the time but in essence they still have to be mats. Personally, I think anyone put off by the way the look shouldn't be on one anyway because if surfing is anything other than an internal experience for you then you need to stick to your Quikabong Rip Stix!
I'm really excited by your ideas but they are not mats.
I like it that mats are inaccessible/too hard for most. For me they are the Nirvana at the end of the road (as if you ever reach it) for those prepared to take the plunge and put in the time, pity the sneers and take the early frustration on the chin. Short cuts to stoke never really get there. It's as much about the journey as the destination.
The fact is, mats are completely unlike any other surfcraft. That's a good thing. At the risk of sounding offensive (and I really don't want to) making mats more rigid is a step backwards in my opinion. Surfoplanes were more rigid than Hodgemans and so on. I'm all about getting as pliable as possible but still staying in one piece! Pliability and lack of structure is their magic, not their downfall.
As I say, I'm wery excited about your ideas but they are something new. Embrace that fact cause it rocks!
Cheers
G
…thanks !
do you have a few fellow matters in your neck of the woods ?
what waves are you mainly riding them in , ‘Grayman’ ? …are they mostly reefs , or beachies , or points ? or…ALL of the above ?
" Goes very well. Not as much hold as a 4GF Standard but more speed "
…in what area do you feel less hold , is it off the bottom , off the top , in the tube ?
what would you put that down to ?
…it’s interesting to me , to hear [read!] feedback on mats , as I have only ever really played around with them in tiny summer waves here , to be able to get between the flags in summer. Usually the best banks on the beach are where the clubbies [‘surf “lifesaving” club members’] will place the flags ! It’s always fun to outrun the boogie boarders and bodysurfers on a mat , eh ? Also , to not have to risk getting the pointy nose of a board in the head , which would be a concern here in winter , for sure [ there are no ‘swimming area flags’ up on the beaches here , then …]
How do YOU go with the boardriders there , 'Gray ’ ? …do they cut you some slack , in the lineup ?
cheers mate !
ben
“I like it that mats are inaccessible/too hard for most. For me they are
the Nirvana at the end of the road (as if you ever reach it) for those
prepared to take the plunge and put in the time, pity the sneers and
take the early frustration on the chin. Short cuts to stoke never
really get there. It’s as much about the journey as the destination.”
Very approximate paraphrase of GG, “10 years of riding a mat (as more or less your daily) to get to extracting full performance capabilities,” followed by that he has been riding them almost daily for 30+ years and still learns something every single go out.
[quote="$1"] .....thanks ! do you have a few fellow matters in your neck of the woods ? [/quote]
Best you look at the UKMS site I'd say:
[quote="$1"] what waves are you mainly riding them in , 'Grayman' ? ....are they mostly reefs , or beachies , or points ? or...ALL of the above ? [/quote]
Mostly beach breaks. I surf a good few reefs too. We have the odd point but they are mostly busy... There are a few though :)
[quote="$1"] " Goes very well. Not as much hold as a 4GF Standard but more speed " ...in what area do you feel less hold , is it off the bottom , off the top , in the tube ? [/quote]
Kinda on the face/in the tube when in one. I'm not saying it doesn't hold because it holds well, however I've predomenantly ridden 4GF Standards, an excellent mat with exceptional hold in critical positions. The Standard is, on paper, way too small for me but I've always got on well with it. G-Mat 2 has a fair amount more length and is a touch wider. All it means is I have to lift/squeeze the outside rail a touch more. I think heavy hollow waves would still see me on the Standard though.
[quote="$1"] ...it's interesting to me , to hear [read!] feedback on mats , as I have only ever really played around with them in tiny summer waves here , to be able to get between the flags in summer. Usually the best banks on the beach are where the clubbies ['surf "lifesaving" club members'] will place the flags ! It's always fun to outrun the boogie boarders and bodysurfers on a mat , eh ? Also , to not have to risk getting the pointy nose of a board in the head , which would be a concern here in winter , for sure [ there are no 'swimming area flags' up on the beaches here , then ...] How do YOU go with the boardriders there , 'Gray ' ? ....do they cut you some slack , in the lineup ? cheers mate ! ben [/quote]
Most of the time you get something ranging from respectful interest to indifference. The main sniggers come from people projecting their own short comings. Not had any problems really. Certainly less stick than when kneeboarding.
I pretty much exclusively surf early dawnies. Certainly not when lifeguards are about, but like you say, it's nice to be able to go wherever the waves are.
Cheers
G
" I pretty much exclusively surf early dawnies "
...early dawnies.... in ireland .....in winter ... [i would definately say you are HARD [frozen , even?] CORE , mate !]
....when i'm dawn patrolling HERE in winter [now!] , I will NEVER say "i'm cold" again !
" Certainly less stick than when kneeboarding. " [ah yes , carrying on the george greenough and scott preiss tradition nicely there !]
yep , it's the SAME here ...even boogers laugh at , and try to drop in on , kneeboarders [and mal['ibu']s] ...UNSUCCESSFULLY, I may add ... both vessels always outspeed them , EVERY time ...when oh when will the little booooggggerrrrssss LEARN , if EVER, I wonder ?!
cheers
ben
Ben, I forgot you were heavily into mats last year ? Or was it the year before ?
No ofence taken Grayman, Im just here to do some thinking experiments.
How about something like this ..
Under the deck are vertical beams for rigidity, the inflatable hull sections are connected to the end of the beams.
At the front and back the thickness of the inflatable sections are less so the rigidity of the deck has more effect.
The idea is that you get the same riding on air effect but the rails and tail would have more hold like a bodyboard or paipo.
Would certainly cut down on resistance. Hard to build though.
I’m in Cornwall, not Ireland but it does get cold in winter Ben.
G
Then it becomes a body board wonder what Jim R at surflight could come up with dont know if his carbon cores could handle the stress of pro bodyboarders but a mat style?.The mat thing sounds like hard work but fun.Saw a couple of friends do the mat thing last year excellent surfers but terrible mat riders never got around one section but its all good.When the surf get small or onshore i will belly ride or knee board the smallest board i got great perpective ,humor for an aging surfer.My own inner most limits of pure fun.
Arthritis and poor eyesight are making it very hard to continue making things but I think I might have a go at making something like this before I hang up the key to the shed. If I can make a semi-rigid deck I'll try to vent it thru the deck.
If anyones got any tips on finding materials in Queensland...?
Number 3
yay !!
welcome back !
keep the progress[ion] coming , always good to see and hear people's improvements on the next projects ...
so ...
please tell ?
how does it go ?
what is better / different ?
etc
cheers
ben
Hello.
Main differences are 1/4" concave and square corners, both coming together to make a mat that really wants to goooooo!
Still turns well, again helped by the concave.
Full details of the build here:
http://www.surfmat.org/t743-g-mat-3-the-tank
G
Been surfing this mat on a daily basis and its amazing the difference between solid foam/fibreglass and flexible material.
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202011/Sept2011002a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/SURFFOILS%202011/Sept2011009a.jpg[/IMG]
You paddle into a wave, the takeoff has that familiar 'semi-displacement' feel and then it planes and hits a top speed beyond paipos and surfboards. It just takes off !
Maybe its the minimal displacement from the ultra bouyancy or maybe its the flexible hull that responds to water pressure and flitters over the surface. I paddle out with a higher pressure and take a few waves but at lower pressure it feels faster. At lower pressure
It doesnt have much "run" out on to a flat face but if its got a steep wall, its off and sliding like an icecube, I think gravity has the greatest effect on a mat because a mat has little interaction with the rest of the wave.
I previously never believed that mats were magically faster than any other craft but theres something to be said for a totally flexible envelope of fabric.
[quote="$1"]
Maybe its the minimal displacement from the ultra bouyancy or maybe its the flexible hull that responds to water pressure and flitters over the surface. [/quote]
The latter,
[quote="$1"]
at lower pressure it feels faster. [/quote]
There's the evidence
[quote="$1"]
I previously never believed that mats were magically faster than any other craft but theres something to be said for a totally flexible envelope of fabric.
[/quote]
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!
Imagine the speed if the rails were floppy too! :-p
Great work though fella.
Cheers
G
PS. Here's my latest:
http://ukmatsurfers.blogspot.com/2011/09/g-mat-4-ta-daaaaaaaaaaa.html
Photo attached
G
I believe that at speed, the air in the mat somehow keeps your body weight from affecting the bottom of the mat almost like if it was independent from the deck. The mat is like a paradox, it displaces little water, just enough to keep it on track, and at the same time it skims over water. I once ran over my brother in law with my mat while he was trying to avoid getting hit by an overhead wave while paddling out, I was going fast (3rd gear) and ran over his back. Later he told me he just felt the nylon skim over his back like if it was a towel moving with the wind with absolutely no weight or pressure… and I am over 200 lbs…
Does anyone know what I can use to plug the valve on a Surf-O-Plane mat? I just got it and discovered the missing plug (bought off Craigslist). I used some tape to cover it but it started didn’t hold very well on the way to the beach.