Do you use a respirator when you glass epoxy?

General Discussion
21

Built a high tech campus in Silicone Valley in an area designated a Federal Superfund Site due to a plume of TCE (Trichloroethylene, solvent commonly used in chip manufacturing, dry cleaning industry, aviation for cleaning jets before declared hazardous) sitting in the soil about 70 feet deep.  Just as we were ready to begin construction, California EPA proposed changing  the acceptable exposure limits to far less then Federal EPA standards because of increasing realization of how dangerous TCE exposure was. 

While the the two regulating agencies locked horns (Fed EPA was fighting the change because of the economic implication around the nation if it became the new standard), I halted final construction planning and put out an RFP to several of the most noted HAZMATS engineering firms in north america to provide consulting assistance to help us understand just how serious the problem was.  To safeguard our employees, we were prepared to walk away from the project and build elsewhere.

So during the next few months while CA and FED duked it out, the company we chose to work with performed exhaustive ground and air sampling 24/7 so we could get to a decision point well before the bureaucrats finished their endless wrangling.

Conclusion was we were well below even the new CA proposed limits.  Even so, when we proceeded with construction, installed non-permeable foundation barriers just to be safe.

After dozens of meetings with the HAZMATS experts we had hired, two biggest takeaways;

Solvents like TCE and Acetone are the nastiest stuff you can breathe at over exposure limits, pure death.  Greg is so right,  learn to build surfboard without it if you can.  If you can’t, ventilate the space and use the best mask and skin protection you can.

Diesel exhaust is a close second.

We continued 24/7 air sampling for several years both inside and outside of our buildings as a safety precaution.

Leading carcinogen in every sample we took - diesel exhaust, from all the trucks and buses running 24/7/365.  As the lead chemical consulting engineer said, breathing in diesel exhaust is about as bad for you as smoking asbestos cigarettes…

22

Most people in the surf industry come from polyester so they are used to high vapor pressure resins and lots of solvents.  Modern epoxies like ours have vapor pressures that are less than 1/50th polyester surfboard resins.  It took me a while to understand that it’s the level of air contaminate that is the issue.  Above we read that 3M considers 300ppm to be the upper end of contaminate level for epoxy.  OSHA considers the upper level for polyester to be 100ppm. Pretty easy to get to a 100ppm with a resin that is 35% solvent (styrene). Add to that number acetone as a required clean up and you have a pretty toxic environment.  Conversely, pretty hard to get to 300ppm with a resin system that is 0% solvent especially if your not using clean up solvents.  So your comparing apples and oranges as far as what is nessasary for a safe environment. If we were using TCE as Icc wrote above we would see even higher levels of protection nessesary than what we use in polyester shops. Generally a mask is going to be required as the main precaution when your in a poly shop while a simpler precaution, ventilation, will be required in an epoxy shop.  But again if your finding the chemical is bothering you a mask is a good idea.

23

And obviously not just what you’re breathing in the shop.  Total accumulation of your exposure to where you live and what you do.

Effective risk management = avoid the tipping point.

 

24

Exactly.

 

25

With Additiive F I definitely wear the respirator…

26

 

Yeah, direct me to the data that tells me xylene is safer than acetone.

27

The xylene issue has been discussed before. In a well ventilated area, the concentration can’t reach harmful levels. If you’re glassing in a box, suit up.

28

Every year I have to attend a manditory safety class on crude oil. Xylene, toulene, benzine all those petrolium byproducts are bad for you. If you use this stuff with any regularity, be very careful to not get it on your skin. Same for Gasoline. What was once called gasoline is not what we put into our cars these days. The stuff we get at the gas station is a toxic blend of petrolium byproducts lots of stuff ending with -ene and -ine in there. 

I always stand up wind when I put gas in my car. Even in an open area, I wear a mask when I mess with xylene.

29

 

Use common sense, don't bath, drink or snort in any of the liquids associated with surfboard building.  

 

When in doubt...Wear a top quality 3M Organic Filter Mask.

 

Always buy quality 3M products...

30

Forgot to mention that I wear 2 layers of gloves when I mess with xylene, the thin blue ones first then a heavier long glove (like the stuff you use for washing dishes) over that. I have one type of mask for sanding and another for messing with resins or other materials with fumes.

31

I do all my epoxy glassing in the buff. It really sucks getting resin on my clothes. I have a big cowboy hat and a loin cloth that I use for PPE. Sometimes I wear the cowboy boots but bare foot glassing  is better.

..........Think lifetime exposure not two epoxy jobs per year with 4cc of add F. Life is full of choices. No one forced you to spend 40 + hours per week in a surfboard factory.....harsh.

Now back to naked surfboard building....I always feel so happy when I'm naked...thinking about expanding my loin cloth quiver!!!

Ray

32

“Xylene, toulene, benzine”

all nasty stuff.  Had personal experience with Toulene, shut down a production lab over it…excessive open containers, no fume hoods, insufficient negative room exhaust…wouldn’t let it reopen until the space was completely re-engineered to code.

Urge anyone using these and similar chemicals to read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) for each chemical you work with, by law required to be supplied with every purchase upon request… 

OSHA regulations require, and CAL-OSHA mandates with stiff penalties, that an employer must have the MSDS of every toxic
chemical kept on premises, and documented employee sign-off they have read the
MSDS.  Also need to have the appropriate ‘emergency’ clean-up supplies on hand.  Which for most chemicals is just absorbent material, the gloves, skin protection and mask that should used when handling anyway,  and a 5 gal HAZMATS marked bucket with a snap lid to store the used absorbent.  To be disposed at a county HAZMATS site.

Some scoff at such protecton and regulations.  Well, we all remember those glassers back in the day that used to wash their hands in acetone at the end of a long day glassing, often with a cigarette dangling from their lips.  Know any still around?

 

33

double post

34

I’ve been using 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol (DNA ) as a substitute for for some of the other bad de-greasing solvents out there… Turns out it’s not really that much safer.

Vinegar and  scrubbing solvents based on oranges are a better choice for cleaning tools… You should really  wear nitrile gloves for every task.

I’ve used latex hospital type gloves  in the past… They turn yellow and disintegrate with over exposure to  chemicals like acetone and other solvents… Nitrile gloves are issued in refineries as the glove to use with volitile petrochemicals.    Look for the blue Nitrile gloves. http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-nitrile-gloves.htm

In response to the OP.  My answer is  Yes ,   If you’re using xylene ,acetone, or any other sketchy solvent, wear a respirator. . Make sure it’s not just a dust mask but a proper organic vapour cartridge set up… If you’re glassing in a confined space with little fresh air movement, by all means wear an organic vapour respirator…

Van.

35

Worked as a design engineer at a composites company where we had about 100 guys using Poly, Epoxy and Phenolic. We had lots of guys have problems with phenolic, some with poly and pretty much none with epoxy. Full PPE was used with phenolic and poly and nil with epoxy. We did have a couple of skin sensitisation issues and as Greg L said, acetone was always the culprit as it acts like a carrier. The majority of the epoxy we used was of a previous generation to RR and not as nice.

Personally I dont wear mask to glass with epoxy, but I do to shape and sand.

36

Just glassed an Epoxy surfboard in my little shop......no solvents.....clean up is done with paper towels...good air flow...no stagnet air...less than 10cc of add F used...no mask...and I wore clothes....but naked glassing is better.........

Get rid of the Acetone...and the DNA....what are you people cleaning with solvents?

$0.75 for a squeege.....$0.50 for a paint brush.

Stingray..........

37

Stingray… I’m cleaning spreaders… with white vinegar… wearing gloves. I also use it to clean the occasional smear or drip on the forearm, or tweezers after hotcoating.

I think it’s also worth mentioning that you should always wear protection when cutting your cloth. Never, never, never cut cloth without at least a mask that’s rated for fiberglass. A respirator is better. Otherwise, you’ll be calling the law firm of Swindle, Malarky and Shenanigan to handle your mesothelioma case.