Why is EDRO styrofoam better than extruded styrofoam for epoxy boards? It does’nt have the wicking -absorbition problem of EPS Styrofoam ? Does it come in different weights? Does it flake like EPS styrofoam ? Where can you get more Info on this ? Is there a supplier in thre San Diego area ? Is there by any chance anyone making blanks with this material?
Hotcurl: (XPS=Extruded Polystyrene=Dow Blue Builders Foam) (EDRO= an improved Expandeded Polystyrene) See the recent discussion below: Re: …or not Greg Loehr – Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 6:30 p.m…XPS (extruded polystyrene) generally does not wick water. That’s not the problem with it. The building material industry got nailed for using EPS (expanded polystyrene) because it DID wick water. It (EPS) is now available with new technology that doesn’t (EDRO technology) He was right that XPS does delaminate because of trapped blowing agent gasses and this is XPS’ great failing in surfboard construction. Meanwile the advances in EPS have answered the the issues involved with it and it now presents a very fine material for both surfboard and house construction. Epoxy resins, on the other hand, are consistantly misrepresented. This may soon all be water under the bridge though because of the radification of 1164 which mandates the elimination of most VOC’s from manufactuing in California. This is already in effect and the local air quality folks are starting with the big boys (like boat mfg) and working their way down to businesses like surfboard manufacturers. The only alternitive available presently are epoxy resins which have become easy enough to use that production using this method is reasonable. And as you stated there are advantages that go far beyond environmental.
Insulfoam has this technology. They have plants in Chino, Ca. and in Pheonix, Az. They perhaps have distribution in SD. They have an 800 number but I don’t have it here. Try 1-800-555-1212. That’s 800 information. I beleive you can also find them here on the net. Try Insulfoam in one of the search engines.
Greg: That dog will hunt…there seems to be 11 plants in the U.S. for Insulfoam. http://www.premier-industries.com/insulfoam.cfm?topic=locations
Hey Greg, Thanks for the info. Does this EDRO product/Insulfoam absorb a much water when the fiberglass is dung? Do you have to let it dry for more than one day before you can repair it?
Product made in these machines are generally water tight. At least as good as urethane. Extruded is the champ when it comes to water intrusion through dings but the disadvantages outweigh these when it comes to production board building.
Thanks, But I would like to see an improvement in water absorption over that of Urethane foam because it does absorb more water than I would like. I hate waiting days for foam to dry before repairing dings. Quinn
Greg: Is the Insulfoam product that is being discussed here the Type 1 product in their line- 1.8 lb. nominal density? Thanks, Tom S.
As long as I’ve been involved in using polystyrene foams, EPS has always been an evolving technology. I would imagine this will continue. About every 5 years there is a new form of breakthrough that transends the former technology giving us better and better product from which it build boards. I too would like to see water absorbsion decreased in EPS and I suspect we will when the next round of improvments occur in the near future. Until then I am pretty happy with what we now have. The polystyrene foam industry is growing by leaps and bounds and this is one reason for so much focus on it’s quality by the foamers themselves. To give you an example of the size of this industry, the blocks that I cut blanks from are each large enough to make 250 surfboards out of. The company that produces the blocks can do one every 8 minutes. They do up to 75 semi-trailers of foam a day. There are 8 plants that produce EPS in the state of FL. That’s a lot of foam! In comparison, the largest foam producer for surfboards is, of course, Clark foam. They have enough production capacity during a 24 hour shift to fill 1 semi trailer. They can produce up to 1000 blanks a day and ship worldwide. Clark foam is one of the largest urethane manufactrers in the world. Obviosly the amount of capital being spent on EPS r&d is quite a bit more than is being spent on other foams. This is the reason for the continued improvment in quality and the reason I have stayed the course with the product. I suspect that when all is said and done EPS will be quite superior in the future. I feel that it is, at this point, at least equal to any other core material for boards.
HI IT’S NICE TOO SEE FINALLY AN INTEREST IN ALTERNATIVE SURFBOARDS, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING THE LAST 12 YEARS WITH EXTRUDED POLYSTERENE OUR BLANKS ARE CALLED “XTR” TOO MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH EXPANDED. UNFORTUNALLY MANY PEOPLE GIVE UP WITH THE MANY DETAILS OF USING EXTRUDED FOAM. OUR ADVANTAGE IS THAT AS MANY CUSTOMERS DID WE GOT ADDICTED TO THE FEELING OF THE POSITIVE FLEX OF AN EXTRUDED BLANK VS. ANYTHING OUT THERE. IT TOOK 12 YEARS TO SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS OF THE DELAMINATION AND WE CALLED THE “THERMOVENTS” SMALL VENTS THAT ALLOWED THE GAS TO ESCAPE WHEN HOT, AND AS EVERYBODY KNOWS EXTRUDED P. DOES NOT ABSORV WATER, WE HAVE 100% POSITIVE RESULTS AFTER WE USE “THERMOVENTS” IN ALL SURFBOARDS INCLUDED POLISH LONGBOARDS. WE CAN KEEP TALKING FOR HOURS AND MY OPINION IS THAT THE FUTURE IS A COEXISTENSE OF MANY OPTIONS FOR CUSTOMERS,LIKE “EDRO” AND OUR RESPONSABILITY IS TO EDUCATE INFORM AND IMPROVE BEFORE A BETTER SOLUTION WILL COME FROM OVERSEAS. AS AN EXAMPLE OF OUR RESULTS WITH OUR “XTR” …DICK BREWER LONG BOARDS, GUNS IN PIPELINE FOR GARRET MC. NAMARA(8 GUNS BUILT NONE BROKE OR DELAM), LOST SURFBOARDS WITH BOARDS FOR THE LOPEZ BROTHERS, AND ANDY IRONS PERSONAL BOARD FOR THE NEXT CONTEST IN JAPAN, AL MERRICK PERSONAL BOARD AND NOW CHANNEL ISLAND OFFERING CUSTOM ORDERS IN 3 MAYOR SURF SHOPS IN CALIFORNIA,LATEST ORDER 70 BOARDS WITH “XTR”, LINDEN SURFBOARDS, VELZY SURFBOARDS,BLAIR, STU KENSON, XANADU,MIDGET SMITH,JOE BLAIR, STEEVE SEEBOLD, PULSE SURFBOARDS ETC. ALL THIS SHAPERS ARE ACCEPTING ORDERS BECAUSE SURFERS ALREADY KNOW ABOUT "XTR"IT DOSEN’T ABSORV WATER AND IT WILL IMPROVE YOUR SURFING. PROVEN WITH RESULTS NOT WITH MARKETING $.
Javier makes some good points. There are always new ways to use materials and many problems can be solved through creative means. And I agree that making the most out of the newer materials is the surest way of beating the imports. By the way Javier, I’d like to visit your factory in the near future and share with you some of the materials and processes we have come up with in the few years. Some really great stuff we have just figured out about using carbon fabrics and of course additive F.
The finished product reminds me of the molded styrofoam boards we used to get at the local drug store for 1.99 to use in the pool. They were not coated with epoxy/glass - just raw foam. Seems like a natural method for surfboard blanks if you have the facility to do it.
Greg: We where hoping you will be here last month, let us know when are you coming, I’m working like crazy triying to get ahead for this new swell early this week. Javier
Hey Javier, I have seen a few of your Pulse boards in the local shops. I was curious about your Thermovents. To me they looked like small holes in the deck glass on each side of the stringer. Is there more to this than that? If I were to get out a 1/32" drill bit would I accomplish the same thing? I tried to look up the patent regarding your company on the U.S. Patent office website but was unable to locate anything. Can you be more specific as to what you patented? I would like to learn more.