As far as being harsh is concerned, it's just not true, I was still being civil.
Well, I felt it was harsh, and apparently the one opinion that really matters (the forum administrator) concurs since he posted right after mine to agree.
I was simply trying to head off a potential pissing match by posting that perhaps Roy didn’t say the things you were assuming he did and mentioning that perhaps your reply was a bit more attitude than is needed. Personally, I don’t mind a little arguing at all, but a bunch of others do and that leads to people getting their panties in a twist and people getting banned and what not. So let’s just try to avoid it this time around!
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I look forward to more constructive discorse with you in the future.
Your idea reminds me of the trend for ellipse shaped surfboards around here in the mid/late 70’s, Tris Surfboards made a lot. They’d sometimes come out so symmetrical it didn’t matter which end they put the fin on, so they could easily have stuck a fin on each end and call it a double ender. Never happened of course, not a lot of call for them back then, or now come to that. I kind of like the idea but I do wonder about how a board with a nice big single fin at the front would perform. As I remember whenever you do a fin first take off the natural tendency is for the board to want to get the fin end back at the rear, so wouldn’t fins put at each end fight each other. Mind you I’ve never made or even ridden a double ender so I know nothing.
In the case of the Double End surfboard we made, fin boxes were used so that whichever end was chosen to be the “nose” that day, would not have a fin in place. It would have been placed at the end chosen to be the “tail” that day. The reason for such different treatments of the nose/tails of the above described board was to provide two distinctly different riding characteristics for the customer. It makes no sense to me, to make both ends the same, and have them ride the same. I’m very tempted to make a more refined “modern” version of the original board we made. Only this time drop it down to 7’ or 7’ 2". Any volunteers for test rider?
Bill, you’re absolutely right here- if you make a true double ender it’ll surf the same what ever end the fins on so why bother? I like the concept and remember Wayne Lynch made a few ‘parallel rail’ boards but they were all in the 6’-6’2" range. There may still be pics of them on the Evolution site but I couldn’t swear to that (as was discussed in another thread the skin care products and celebrity endorsements made me spend my time elsewhere.) Anyways, you guys should all make the boards you’re talking about and report back and also all let me have a ride or two on them
I beg to differ, a double ended board is just one kind of board proportion on a sliding scale from area forward and wide point forward boards through to the opposite extreme, area aft and wide point aft boards. . . . . I build them because I happen to like that kind of proportion in a board, not because the board can actually be reversed and the fin parked on the other end, I mean if the shape is functional it’s not pointless to build it just because it would ride the same with the fin at either end !
Satorisurf was, I believe, interested in a board with the same nose and tail in planshape and rocker, not so that he could park the fin on either end but because he is interested in that particular proportion in a board.
I think Bill’s idea is really interesting though. . . . 2 boards in 1. . . Wow !
utterly true, my semantics are jacked- if the board surfs well it should be built, what I mean is why put fin boxes at both ends if it’ll surf the same either way? Obvious answer to that is why not put fin boxes at either end? Given some of the abominations I’ve surfed over the years I’m definitely the last person who should be telling actual board designers what’s what, but the more I stir you guys up the more I learn, and the more varied my surfing horizons become. I’ve not surfed a double ender but have heard much good about them, so here I am, interested. Keep it coming.
Phew, I thought I was in trouble there for a minute. … .
What gets me is when I’m at the beach with an extreme pintailed forward planshape board and a shortboarder comes up and tells me that the fin is at the wrong end. . . . I have a special piece of leather to chew on (an old shoe) during these occasions.
As the owner of the 1970 8’ Surf Systems board I just had to jump into this. I approached Bill in Dec. 1970 while home on leave from Hawaii to build this board for me. The reason for the two ends being shaped different was for different surf conditions. I rode it in Hawaii and it work well, except the fin was a sliver and was prone to spin me out of waves. Larger surface fin solved that problem. The board had been hanging on the wall since 72 until a year ago when I let a friend use it while he was having a new board made… He had a blast on it and said it was fast, as I remembered, and the most fun board he had ever ridden… Got the board back and its back on the wall… Would love to ride it but would need to do some serious diet action to be able to handle it today, ha… If I can find a picture I’ll try and post… If Bill would make a 10’ instead of a 7’2" I would test pilot it…
Good to hear from you. Surprised it’s through this Forum. Those “sliver” fins were the standard of the day. Everyone was into sideslipping then. The fins were marginal at best in small slow waves, but were highly efficient at higher speeds in larger waves. It’s been many years since I’ve seen that board. Would love to see it again. It’s interesting to go back and see what your thinking was back in that day. We need to get together and see who weighs more. Aloha Nui.
If we stray off the path a little we find the “Compact Disc”. Not quite a double ender but maybe what you are looking for. I’m not an expert shaper but my 6’11" is really fun in small waves. I call it a “mini log” but I copied Walden. It’s all fun.
Nice photo, I forgot about the arrowhead on each end (nose). Nice to see the hollow stringer board in the foreground too. I’m game for the ten footer, if you are! Yikes, I just realized the hollow stringer board is 41yrs old!!! The time flies when you’re not looking, eh?
