at some stage during my epoxy sandwich board I developed a rash on the inside of my forearms. It sort of crept up on me and I don’t know at exactly what stage it occurred but it did get aggravated by just using the resin even with long sleeves, vinyl gloves and respirator. This apparently is a typical allergic reaction to epoxy. I had to stop work on the project anyway for about 1 1/2 months when i visited australia and when I returned i was able to complete it with no return of the symptoms.
I have done 4 epoxy boards in total, 2 of them were about 20yrs ago and i got exposed to the construction of a few others then with minimal protection. More recently I wore latex gloves on board 3 with a respirator. I learned that vinyl gloves are better and used them for epoxy board 4 on which i developed the allergy. I had good ventilation but i suppose i wasn’t as careful as i could have been and did get some on my skin, particularly when under the time pressure stress of my limited lam technique.
from what i have read on the following link its a warning that things could get much worse.
I’m going to consider wearing a plasic suit or something before attempting another one.
anyone else got any information or experiences on this?
a blind fear or epoxy sensitivity is a primary reason I haven’t joined the epoxy throng…Dr. lohr I;m interested to hear your backround understanding of this as you have devoted so much energy to the substance…is it type specific/ is your formula Hypoalergenic? … ambrose …de sensitized to the itch…
Epoxy makes my skin break out in a rash also.It never bothered me for years but it finally caught me.I only use it for woodworking and I am OK if i wear gloves and clean up with denatured alchohol and soap.
Stick a fork in ya, you’re done. Sounds like you’re sensitized. If I were you, I’d never get near the stuff again. It only gets worse with more exposure. Some people never get it, some the first time they see the stuff. I’m a toolmaker and cut my teeth doing “soft” tooling. I’ve seen some nasty stuff happen to the older guys. One guy would blister up if he was within a couple hundred feet of a layup. I’m talkin BIG BLISTERS, whole forearm, whole calf. Nasty stuff~rashes, swelling joints and fingers. My opinion, of course, do what you like but I’m glad I’m not in that line anymore.
i once made set of slab glass windows (dalle de verre) cast in epoxy. I think the epoxy was made by HCH chemicals. the job lasted 5 days a week for 9 months, so I had a lot of exposure to epoxy. We added catalyst, mixed it up using a paint shaker, and poured direct from gallon cans into our molds, without respirators or long sleeves. I liked the smell, and I really like epoxy, but by the end I started getting rashes on my forearms, behind the ears and near my groin. Now, 15 yrs later, a little whiff of 5-minute epoxy still makes me break out. On the other hand, my grandpa was a plastics chemist and he never got sensitized even though he used formaldehyde and polymers his whole life. If i could, i would definitely make an epoxy surfboard.
Epoxy exposure is awful. Rashes and blisters are the tip of the iceberg. It can lead to respiratory failure and/or cardiac failure. Be careful with it. I use a tyvek suit with a hood and gloves, my wrists and ankels taped, respirator, and Goggles, not glasses, since vapors still get in through the soft tissue, and baby powder on my exposed skin. Remmeber Epoxy is only as safe as you make it.
What sort of gloves do You guys use? What materials block out the nasty stuff??
I’ve read that latex rubber is not so good, also read someone recommending gloves made of Nitril rubber.
Anyone have any comments on this
I unknowingly used ordinary dishwashing gloves with lots of barrier cream on my hands, have only glassed one board so far and no sign of any rashes yet
ive been working with it 20 years never had a problem …but in that time ive had some staff who have developed the symptons mentioned above …its something i always look out for ,a real shame with some guys coz there were great workers but just couldnt go near the stuff and had to resign ,i had one guy just recently who begged me to stay and said he could deal with it ,he hung in there for another 2 years but had to wear full protective gear .as soon as he got some on his skin ,just the smallest amount ,he would need a few days off to recover …
ive had 5 workers develop epoxy allergy over the years …all were either redheads or closly related to red hair people …i met this guy who was building aircraft during the korean war ,i asked him about epoxy allergy once ,he was quick to reply"redheads"
i ended up doing some interesting research a few years back coz i wanted to find out why some people react and some dont,
it ends up in the early days of blood transfusions people were dieing so they wrote it off as a bad experiment…then later they found people had different blood types ,some could except any blood ,others could only except compatible types ,it ends up blood has built in antibodies that recognise foreign blood and attack it ,some blood types carry a particular molecule that ends up being the same as a molecule found in epoxy hardener ,people with those blood types cant tolerate epoxy coz its naturally found in there bodies and it wont try and reject it ,itstarts to accumulate because the bodie doesnt recognise it as foreign,eventually it builds to the point where the body starts to exude the excess and it will weep like puss from the eyes ,under the fingernails and blister on the skin near the surface, but people without that molecule in there blood wont get a toxic build up of it they just deal with it each time they touch it , but the immune system can still get a workout if overexposed to it in large amounts …
when i rang up my previous employies and asked there blood types they all fell into 2 types ,i honestly cant remember the both but one was ab+ …now that was as far as i got and didnt bother to pursue it further …if theres any medical students out there who wanna do a survey on blood types and epoxy allergy ,i think you would get some interesting results…
That’s very interesting Bert. Only one of the guys I knew was a redhead. The worst I ever saw (giant blisters) was a full blood indian, about as far from redhead as you can get. Another guy thought he was sensitized to epoxy but turned out it was the latex gloves he was allergic to.
Noodle, who used to post here, was sensitized but he continued to build with epoxy.
Howzit Mr. Clean, I understand Bruce Jones became sensitive and can’t even enter a room where epoxy is being used. Here’s something to think about, Mike Cruteau (spelling) became sensitive to polyester resin and I think polystyrene foam. I’m with Ambrose in the fact that I won’t work with it. If you use acetone to clean up epoxy you acetone smell like cat urine.Aloha, Kokua
We have 20 years of using and selling epoxies. We have never had any problems witrhin our shop and even instances in other shops using our products are extremely rare. Much of what Bert stated above is good information. Here are my own observations from my experience. The information below has been posted here before.
Vapor from most epoxies is much lower than it’s polyester counterparts. The resins we produce (Resin Research Epoxies) are all high solids and have 1/50th the vapor of polyester surfboard resins. In our shop (which is well ventilated) we don’t even wear masks. Epoxy is also NOT a carcinogen. That has been well proven by OSHA and many others in industry. What epoxy is, is a skin sensitizer. This varies greatly between different epoxy systems depending on different companyÕs formulations. Most older epoxy hardeners are formulated with a chemical known as TETA or another called DETA. These base hardeners are in the aliphatic amine family, are very reactive, somewhat unstable, quite toxic and easily can cause sensitization of the skin (or dermatitis). Most of these hardeners are also modified with phenol and formaldehyde. Phenol is what dermatologists use for chemical skin peels and increases TETA and DETA’s toxicity to the skin dramatically. Many of these older hardeners are up to 50% phenol. Formaldehyde is also no picnic as it also increases risk because of it’s ability to act as a vehicle for the phenol and amines through the skin and into the blood system. By the way, the reason these epoxy hardeners are still used today is because they’re CHEAP. DETA and TETA cost 1/5 what a modern diamine based hardener costs to produce. Anyone who has worked with many of the West System epoxies are familiar with these low cost systems.
Modern epoxy hardeners are nothing like their 60’s counterparts. As I mentioned above, they are formulated with modern diamines and have vastly reduced incidences of sensitization. They also have lower vapor, better color, better finish, and lower exotherm. They contain NO phenol and NO formaldehyde. Our company was one of the first in the US to formulate and market diamine based epoxy hardeners 20 years ago which gives us an edge in experience with these chemicals. As superior as they are they still must be respected as skin sensitizers. The simple way to eliminate problems related to dermatitis in the workplace is to reduce or preferably eliminate contact with the skin. This means gloves. That’s it. We wear disposable vinyl gloves. Vinyl is preferable to rubber because rubber gloves are also skin sensitizers. The other, even more harmful, ingredient is contaminated acetone. Like formaldehyde above it is a vehicle for toxins into the bloodstream. Fortunately epoxy can be cleaned up with soap and water. Not standard bar soap but with products like Go-Jo and Fast Orange. These products are water based and don’t act as a vehicle the way VOC solvents do.
In 20 years of producing epoxy surfboards we have NEVER had one incidence of dermatitis in our shop. I have also NEVER seen a case of dermatitis that didn’t have something to do with the co-toxin acetone. Given the aforementioned resin parameters and if shop practice adheres to the above suggestions, epoxy resins are MUCH safer to use for producing surfboards than their polyester counterparts.
Bottom line, 1. wear disposible vinyl gloves 2. don’t use acetone 3. work in well ventilated areas 4. clean skin with GoJo or another waterless cleaner 5. Shower after work including hair 6. Don’t leave sanding dust on your skin for long periods.
Greg. I have been using West Epoxy.I use it in woodworking and only as a glue.Would I be better off using your product?I use it for gluing wood joints in furniture and I also use fillers at times.If your resin is ok for glue I will buy some.Thanks
Epoxy allergies is a serious issue. Once you become hypersensitive to epoxy you are essentailly through using it. The epoxy allergies has taken out many of Columbia Gorge(Oregon) builders over the years. Very talented people who can no longer build boards. A few of them had awesome shapes and following. Even the fumes of epoxy will irriate some people. That is the reason I have stayed with polyester. When it comes to epoxy do not skimp on safety equipment and its use.
i know what id rather work with …when people come into my factory the first thing they say is " wheres the smell " i explain that epoxy has no solvents ,thus doesnt give off any fumes ,its so nice to work with ,gregs post was spot on good information …
i hate using polyester …it knocks my head off with all the fumes and takes my breath away …plus it burns your skin when you get it on you ,not to mention the possibilty of instant blindness if you spill mekp in your eye and dont get to a tap quick enough…
i can really see that epoxy has been vilified by the established industry over the years ,propaganda set in place by the conventional material wholesalers ,you get annecdotal rumours continually passed around , like greg said ,there was a lot of nasties in the old hardeners but the new age epoxies are real friendly…
i used to gloss with polyester ,now ive found upol to replace it and im so glad i dont have to use polyester as much now…
when i mix a batch of polyester i often hear someone from a nearby bussiness yell out “CRAP whats that smell” …i can have epoxy going off all day and no one would know…
regards
BERT
ps greg
whats the diff between a polyamine and a diamine???
Athwind is right about the gorge. We sold resin there and after Systems 3 knocked off our product we were no longer in that game. I know West sold a lot of product there as well. Now I’m not pointing any fingers at the other systems, but I’d like everyone to take notice of what happened at the Gorge and compare it to the 20 year history of epoxies in Florida. You don’t get the horror stories out of FL that you do out of the Gorge and FL has used at least as much chemical. We are the primary supplier in Florida and I know of one case there in 20 years and he was using acetone with NO gloves.
Bert, cycloaliphatic diamines are much more stable chemically and don’t have the history of sensitization issues that the aliphatics do.
i actually didnt understand the last thing you said about cycloaliphatic diamines ,in the sense im gonna have to do some research to see how these molecules function …that what i love about swaylocks,being motivated to dig a little further …
while were on the subject ,ive been enjoying my job way more since ive become a swayaholic…