Epoxy & Rice Paper Laminates

I’m using good quality screen printed logos (the guy specialises in surfboard laminates) but I’m having trouble getting them to lay flat with no air with epoxy. Poly no problem, but epoxy is more difficult. Does the high solids content of epoxy make it harder for it to permeate rice paper in which case should I try heating a small batch of epoxy and use that to lay my lams down? Can’t use too much pressure to lay it flat either or the epoxy will froth. Or should I just let it soak like the rest of my epoxy lamination?

Hasn’t been a problem for me. Roll back the glass (just one layer if it is on the deck, so that the paper is inbetween the two glass layers). Then I wet the board or the bottom layer of glass underneath, then lay on the paper and straighten it. then roll the glass over it and wet out normally. Is that your procedure?

Yeah, same as poly really. Still having problems though. Maybe I should give it a little more time before laying the lam down.

with poly or epoxy

roll back glass

pour the rein where the lam goes and lay on lam

squeegee the lam down gently to remove air and align

roll glas back and lam it up

no problem

with epoxy rice paper will not completely disapear so cut it close to your logo

Maybe if you start another thread all your problems will go away.

I find with epoxy after putting the lam on and squeeging it out let it sit for a few seconds to soak in some resin, then it helps to add a few more drips on top, from resin from the tip of a squeege, and squeege it out a second time before folding the glass back over.

I don’t know but this works for me, I’ve never had a problem with being able to see the edges?

dean its not apparent on a white board but the resin doesnt soak in very well

and the paper remains opaque

you need to trim the logos tight or you can see the edges on anything but a white board

it really apparent on wood

also if you have spray of dark colour on the foam you can really see how badly it looks

i dont use them anymore

i stencil my logo with an airbrush

or maybe will get a screen and screenprint onto the foam

yeah iver tried just about every type of paper recomended here

and have never been happy with the result

once again i will find my own way

ive pretty much gone full circle on material and techniques as well

back to boatbuilding

the logo here is a 4 colour stencil

it doenst take long and looks good

this is my first airbrush

got a fair way to go but the logo stencil look great

i did these on the sandcoat

but next time ill do it on the foam i think

Have you tried Silky Medium?

http://www.mindspring.com/~dba-interwest/www/web10.htm

I don’t know what this stuff is or how it’s different from plain old rice paper. But it actually works well on dark colors.

hey deanbo,

i’ve been learning a bit by trial and error on epoxy as well.

i’ve gone to this method:

  1. don’t roll out any glass

  2. pour a little epoxy on the spot where logo will go

  3. brush it around keeping thin as possible

  4. place logo

  5. pour a little more resin over logo and brush around

  6. squeegee away until it is really clean and tight - no bubbles

  7. let it dry a bit, then go about cutting your glass and doing normal lam

takes the pressure of getting it right with all the glass on the board…

next board i’m going to try to put the logo on after the hotcoat and before the gloss

any tips on that?

You may want to try a single layer of four ounce covering the logo. If you are going to try this method put it on somewhere where there is some curve (like down from the nose a bit) that way it will blend in a lot easier.

Smedman, I think there’s a good chance you’re gonna be sorry about putting the logo under only a finish coat. Generally (in my garage anyway) the finish coat is heavily thinned with styrene (obviously I use PE resin). The finish coat is real thin, and if there is any “bumpiness” in the logo you can wet sand through it and then yer so scroooooood. Don’t ask how I realized this, it wasn’t pretty and took a shitload of effort to fix.

For me, the logo ALWAYS goes under glass where the sander can’t reach it. You might even keep a bit of 2 ounce veil on hand for the job, if you persist in putting it so close to the surface.

tried heaps of different rice paper

doesnt seem to work

its only works ok on white or light colours

not to mention that ive seen poly boards with delams onthe logo

for me its best to screen print or stencil the image

no delams ever

go and get a piec of foam and spray it dark blue or black

then put epoxy on it

and you can see the bubbles

so although you cant see it on white

they are there

Just my take on the logo discussion.Have today put a logo on a fully glassed ( carbon/vacuum) spoon kneeboard for a friend in epoxy ( FGI R300 ).No problems.Same as a poly.Bit of resin on the board add the logo,lightly squeege into resin then add a layer of 6oz silane over the top,some more resin,squeege again neatly and that’s done.Looks good.Added filler coat,homemade additive F,ready to sand 2morrow.If doing on the foam shouldn’t be a problem.The board should be spackled anyway.Always under the glass.

Hey Bubbles…

Do you mind if I ask; What’s your “homemade additive F” ingredient?

I use MGS epoxy and Areopoxy resins and normally clear coat my boards in a 2 pack poly, I’d be really interested to try a hot coat using some form of additive to make sanding easier…

Thanks Kiterider…

its wax

you can use wax and styrene

but its a myth im my opinion

thats not the chemical nature of epoxy

it fully cures to the surface anyway so it doesnt need an additive

also if you need to use a solvent to thin so its useable

then imo you are using the wrong brand of epoxy

there are plenty of resins out that can be used in lower temperatures

the best way to get good sanding is using a resin that can post cure to higher thermal stabilty

and run a slow sander with high torque

scrub any blush off first

no matter what you do epoxy will never sand as easily as polyester

high quality papers help as well

but magic ingredients dont do much

your better of with a good qaulity pad and sander etc

and a properly cured sading coat

it really takes three days to get a cure thats reliable

and even a week is a good time to wait till sanding

thats assuming your not baking it

if you baking you can sand after 3 day cure then 8 hour bake

ramp the temp on the bake

Hey Kiterider;

As Paul Cannon has said ,yes I used 5% wax in styrene to make my filler/hot coat.No secret.The reason I decided to use it was make the resin easier to sand.Less clogging of paper.My makita runs about 2100rpm plus.Surface came out good.As far as curing the laminate was concerned it was a non issue.This will happen in the laminate whether I use it or not.If it doesn’t your problem is resin or application mixture.I don’t recall wanting to thin my resin out.If i did i wouldn’t use wax in styrene.IMHO.

Thanks guys…:slight_smile:

Where would I be able to buy wax in styrene? I’m in Canada… A big box hardware lumber store or somewhere specialized??

Thanks again…

Kiterider…:slight_smile:

P.S. A little more on topic:

I’ve had excellent results with transparent clear decal film, the same stuff you used to soak in a plate of warm water and slide off the backing paper onto the plastic model airplanes and cars many years ago, remember??

It comes in 8 1/2" X 11" sheets and you just print your logo on the film then 2 pack clear over top, I suppose you could hot coat over it as well…

Check it out at www.bare-metal.com

Experts-choice decal… Item #123 lazer or # 122 inkjet

so how does wax make epoxy sand better

chemically that is?

no ones ever actually explained the mechanics of it to me effectively or logically

so i assume its a bit like concaves

as far as thinning goes

styrene is a solvent and thins resin

so you are thinning it if you put wax and styrene in it

so im asking this to everyone that uses additves in epoxy beside the usual balloons or fibers

why are you doing it

and can you prove it does what you say it does

and does any other industry do it

and do resin chemist agree that it works for your purpose

the thermal stabilitise of epoxies vary greatly

and depend on cure time and temperature

guys that are using low temp epoxys in coldclimates

well wax and styrens is gunna do swfa for those guys

they need an oven to get a good cure and raise the thermal stability of the resin

so they can sand it proper eh!!!

i have a resin the raises a full 30 degrees or more instability jusrt by a 8 hour post cure

this makes the board easier to sand

no matter what this site may lead people to believe there are lots of great epoxys that work better than RR and kinetics in some applications

Hi there Paul,

the only thing I can think of that wax, wax in styrene etc would do for epoxy is rise to the surface and protect it from the air around it. Never tried putting wax and styrene in epoxy, nor Additive F. I spoke to one person who has tried Additive F who also makes a few boards and he said it made SFA difference. Not having to scrub between coats would be nice, but is it just a pipedream?

“no matter what this site may lead people to believe there are lots of great epoxys that work better than RR and kinetics in some applications”

How about an expoy that does’nt yellow? It there such a thing?