Help Wanted
I’m stocking up to do my first epoxy glass job. I’m very concerned about bubbles because I’m going to use color. I’ve read several recommendation for rollers. Some recommend short nap paint roller, some recommend “hot dog” rollers, others recommend groove type.
I’m going to try squeegee and rollers to see how I fair.
I looked up some rollers at some supply sites and the roller descriptions often talk about reducing air or bubbles. Sounds good but which roller?
Hey Ryan ,
I have the same question.
My demented mind tells me that one of the Hawaiian guys swears by this method. I’ve read it more than once. So… I’m at Home Depot trying to figure out what to buy…Took me a while… I bought a pack of foam rollers. Round ends. (hot dog?) Not like what I used when I painted the inside of the house. I’ve never used a foam roller
“ROLLER FOAM” “ultra-fine foam for the smoothest finish” Brand is Quali-Tech
I like big old school laps for strength. After seeing BamBam’s glassing video I am re-thinking lap size. Boards glassed using roller have been free laps with small overlaps.
What worked for me (two boards)…
Glass board normal letting resin flow over the sides. Use squegee to do laps like I’ve seen in the Austin Surfboard videos. Come back with the roller to smooth out the mess. It’s epoxy so you have time. Might have to pour resin onto the roller to get things started. With the roller I have been able to elimate any sanding or “basting” steps. Bring the resin about 2 inches past the cloth with the roller. If you get crazy fiberglass strands cut them off or work them back into the lap.
I HAVE NOT DONE COLOR USING THIS METHOD
hope this helps
Ray
I might be at San O early sat to meet Benny1. I think they will be at Dog Patch.
I have the best results with short haired rollers, they are marked for use with high gloss paints.
The foamie hotdog ones can give you bubble-itis so stay clear of those imho.
There is a specialist supply shop here:
http://www.maribrush.nl/Home.html
although for lamination these metal ones are great even if overkill for surfboards:
I gave rollers a try and I didn’t find them all that helpful. Environmental conditions are way more important than rolling it out. You also want to avoid overworking the epoxy.
Thanks Stingray,
I’m far from knowing what works best on epoxy. I’ve read recommendations for rollers so it got to thinking about them. I do know a little about bubbles and how they are usually created either by chemically generating gas or physically generating shear. In my mind every pass of a squeegee generates lots of shear as the edge drags over the cloth and it tugs and rolls and skips over each bundle of fibers in the weave. That’s why I’m thinking more about the roller. It drastically reduces shear.
When I was looking at rollers, more than once the destription talked about reducing air and bubbles. One roller was even called a “Bubble Buster”. That seems like a pretty good clue. Of course that doesn’t count for the good stuff the squeegee has going for it like the way it helps pull the cloth tight and how it pulls out a lot of excess resin. Trade off?
All of the rollers I saw at the specialty supply sources were hard metal or plastic with grooves or ridges. I’ve read here of people using smooth rollers and short nap rollers so I thought I’d post this question to see what everybody is using.
Thanks for the feedback
Rollers: http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/category.php?bid=15&PHPSESSID=20070913081920823421778
This is a thread I was wanting to appear right about now, so thanks guys. It seems like there has to be microscopic amounts of air between the fibers of the glass, and now that I think about it, I wonder if that’s not the difference, that the roller doesn’t force them out into the resin like a squeegee tends to when you squeegee using the good old poly scrape the glass technique.
greg
always another way to skin the cat…
with lighter (2.5 or 4oz) cloth, I use the rollers Stingray describes and just put the resin on as usual; pour it out in strips and run @ 45 degrees to spread the resin. No issues with bubbles.
with 6oz, occasionally I get “the twinkles”, so I usually adapt; epoxy is pretty viscous and it occasionally helps to have the resin coming up from the bottom, so I’ll roll out about 1/2 of the resin I need right onto the board and roll it out evenly, then lay out the glass, trim pretty quickly, run a dry roller over the glass so it starts saturating, then mix the other half of the batch and come back with the regular application. All with foam roller described above.
laps work great with a roller and I’d never go back to a squeegee. The whole key is to keep the resin application light; just enough to saturate the glass, and no more. If it gets too wet, I tend to get release and the laps will peel back a bit. Do the usual; start the lap in the middle of the board and roll at a slight angle; down over the rail and towards the middle of the board, away from whatever end you’re working towards. Always end up tight; never an issue thus far. In fact, much easier than with a squeegee in my opinion. Also, there’s no bs about flipping your laps back onto the deck to saturate them or anything…just pour a bit more resin along the deck line and use the roller to work the resin down into the lap.
opinions always differ; there’s no right or wrong. Foam rollers and epoxy work great for me; naps, not so much. Squeegees are a great way to have to use too much resin for a given lam…at least in my hands. The only time I’ve EVER had a problem with resin application using a roller was when I was lamming some 19oz stitched biaxial snowboard cloth, but in reality, should have been using pre-preg, lotsa heat and a helluvalot more pressure than I had access to in that situation…
hth
Jacklow you could be on to something, an agressive squeegy technique is a sure fire way to get white streaks.
I’ve tried using the short nap gloss rollers before for hotcoat/gloss coats but was not very pleased with the results.
I’ve haven’t tried the groved metal/plastic ones, they look similar to what I would use to get the air out of a fin pannel, I’d be worried about denting the foam for a lam.
Taking all other factors like temp/humidity out of the equasion, I’ve found a combination of the small blue 6" stiff squeegy and a 4" brush work best for me.
Go with the short nap hot dog rollers. I never had much luck with the foam ones for laminating. The foam ones that I’ve tried seem to do a great job of holding the resin but not letting it go. I only use the rollers for the laps.
I’ll pour out a little less then I need for the flats and wet out the deck/bottom only. If I need a bit more then I’ll pour out what I need from the bucket.
For color work I try to never use any of the flats resin on the rails. Even at slow speed you can get those tiny bubbles that make the epoxy look cloudy. With 4 oz. it’s really not a problem but as the weight of the cloth increases it becomes more of a problem. I’ve also found that S glass is even harder to deal with then regular E.
The extra resin in the bucket is used with the roller to do the rails. I saturate the roller in the fresh resin and start rolling out the laps starting in the middle and work towards the nose and tail. With 20 min RR epoxy I usually don’t have any problems with the resin going off too quickly in the bucket and this is at 80 degrees. If it’s a big job like a SUP I’ll do the the flats separate from the rails.
If you get the small rollers they fit perfectly inside your resin bucket for your laps. Lately I’ve been using the cheap Walmart rollers but I’ve been finding that the plastic piece on the handle that holds the roller doesn’t last. The Homedepot one is just a stainless rod and theres nothing to wear out.
If your effecient and carefull you can do a lamination with little to no drips. I’ve been adjusting my amounts so that I’m wasting very little resin. I keep a log that has been helping me to get pretty close in using only what I need for the size of the board and the layup schedule.
The only downside is that the roller can leave the rails a bit resin rich and some of the nap hairs will come off. I’ve gone over some of the laps after the roller with a squeege to pull out the extra resin and the little hairs. But I can’t tell the difference in the finished board from one thats been squeeged and one that wasn’t. The tiny hairs aren’t visible once it’s cured. The only real difference is that with the squeege I get resin all over my hands and floor but if I leave it alone everything stays clean.
Lastly this is the only way I’ve ever laminated. I don’t have the skill or the money to laminate the poly way. It blows my mind to watch guys jam at high speed with resin flowing out over the laps dripping all over the place. I’ve also tried to emulate some of the quick back and forth techniques on the flats that I’ve seen poly laminators do and it just foams the hell out of the epoxy. Now I slow down and let the epoxy saturate the glass on it’s own instead of forcing it into the glass.
Any way just my 2 cents.
DMP,
That’s a heck of a lot more than 2 cents. Thanks for the descriptions. Your description in the last paragraph of trying work it like poly and all the foam really hit home. I can work poly and would have probably been prone to rushing. I’m going to go slow for sure.
Lots of good advice here. I’m clearly making my first epoxy project about as hard as it can be. I’ve said that I’m using color. What I didn’t say is that I’m going to do a swirl also. Some of the advice here won’t work if i’m trying to get a swirl pattern to lay over the rail nicely.
I’m glad I’ve got some spare foam and I’m going to practice a little before I do the board.
I’m gonna try the short nap as well as one of the specialty fiberglass rollers.
Thanks